I have both, although I have not driven my 911 for close to 2 1/2 years as it's on the wrong continent. I get bored with Miata (which is why I am on #4 by now) and I might get annoyed at a 911, but never really bored.
Hopefully, there will be another 911 in my future.
I know I am going against the grain of this board but I would not reccomend a miata as an HPDE car. The fact that the miata is a cheap, fun, reliable little car is not really the issue - it is that it is a slow ass car with no room for tools, beer, tires, etc. The ways to make it fast enough to keep up with HPDE "experienced" traffic make it less cheap. You can kid yourself and say "I'd rather drive a slow car fast" but you would be lying to yourself or thinking that you could somehow make up for some of the deficit by being awesome but - no. A E36 M3ty driver in a new 335i will pass you on straights, in corners, maybe even on wet grass at will, all day long. So, unless you are going to miata only track days or running on a very short, twisty track... get something faster. Like a 911 :)
DISCLAIMER: As a budget W2W racer, it's an excellent choice because there is a class of equally slow-assed cars to contend with and you are usually towing it by then.
A lot of people argue that a Miata is a good learning tool because it is so slow as it teaches you a lot about momentum and the keeping up thereof. But as you said, by the time it is fast enough to not be a rolling chicane anymore, you're probably tracking a car tht's cost you $10k-$15k depending where you started and how fast you want to go.
BoxheadTim wrote: A lot of people argue that a Miata is a good learning tool because it is so slow as it teaches you a lot about momentum and the keeping up thereof.
Draconian point-by rules make momentum conservation difficult in an HPDE environment - you have to queue up for turns so any idea that you can maintain anything when the car in front is braking more than you need to is a falsehood. Unless you are alone on track you have to deal with slower drivers in faster cars by giving up and pulling in behind them for turns. It makes you a sitting duck for the next straight because now you get to let all the cars with more acceleration out of a corner overtake you while you struggle to get back up to a respectable speed... so you can queue up behind them for the next turn. Rinse, repeat. It is more of a bitter lesson in why torque is good than any great way to learn to maintain speed.
I collected a lot of black flags for passing in corners before I went W2W racing. 
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:BoxheadTim wrote: A lot of people argue that a Miata is a good learning tool because it is so slow as it teaches you a lot about momentum and the keeping up thereof.Draconian point-by rules make momentum conservation difficult in an HPDE environment - you have to queue up for turns so any idea that you can maintain anything when the car in front is braking more than you need to is a falsehood. Unless you are alone on track you have to deal with slower drivers in faster cars by giving up and pulling in behind them for turns. It makes you a sitting duck for the next straight because now you get to let all the cars with more acceleration out of a corner overtake you while you struggle to get back up to a respectable speed... so you can queue up behind them for the next turn. Rinse, repeat. It is more of a bitter lesson in why torque is good than any great way to learn to maintain speed. I collected a lot of black flags for passing in corners before I went W2W racing.
This pretty much sums up why I no longer own a Miata track car.
I'm surprised they didn't throw you out and ban you for passing in corners.
That's incredibly dangerous in a HPDE environment when the other guys aren't expecting you to do that. Can lead to bent metal and broken bones.
Really poor form...
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I know I am going against the grain of this board but I would not reccomend a miata as an HPDE car. The fact that the miata is a cheap, fun, reliable little car is not really the issue - it is that it is a slow ass car with no room for tools, beer, tires, etc. The ways to make it fast enough to keep up with HPDE "experienced" traffic make it less cheap. You can kid yourself and say "I'd rather drive a slow car fast" but you would be lying to yourself or thinking that you could somehow make up for some of the deficit by being awesome but - no. A E36 M3ty driver in a new 335i will pass you on straights, in corners, maybe even on wet grass at will, all day long. So, unless you are going to miata only track days or running on a very short, twisty track... get something faster. Like a 911 :) DISCLAIMER: As a budget W2W racer, it's an excellent choice because there is a class of equally slow-assed cars to contend with and you are usually towing it by then.
Interesting.
This past weekend the E36 M3tay drivers in neither the 335i or the 135i, or the C4 on Rcomps were passing me, but in fact giving me point bys on the straights since they got tired of being hounded in the corners.
As long as the guys with "faster" cars aren't a$$hats, it isn't a problem.
But Hallett is a 1.8 mile tight, techincal track.
docwyte wrote: I'm surprised they didn't throw you out and ban you for passing in corners. That's incredibly dangerous in a HPDE environment when the other guys aren't expecting you to do that. Can lead to bent metal and broken bones. Really poor form...
Oh please. I've been instructing for a decade all over the east coast. There is a level of trust that develops about who and where you set someone up and nobody ever complains. No one should be holding anyone up at corner entry at this level. Sometimes the flaggers get a bit itchy about it but the people in the group are all friends and acquaintances. We play nice... Just not necessarily according to the rules. Poor form is allowing some one into the group who is surprised by anything. That is why I volunteer to teach ITS :)
In a Miata you can hold up people, but I've never held up too many. With forced induction, it's even less. At a lot of track days I've been to, some of the high hp cars are usually driven by people with not so stellar skills. Not all of them mind you, but quite a few. And if anyone ever goes by under braking without a point by, we're having words in the paddock.
That said, I usually picked my events based on who was running them. It makes a difference.
Speedventures has point by and open passing groups and grids cars based on speed after the first session usually helps with the speed differential issues
That's why you should know better. I've been an instructor for close to 15 years now. Open passing is done in NASA HPDE4 and TT. Any other lower groups it shouldn't be happening.
If you're out in an instructor group that doesn't have open passing you still need to be setting an example for the students.
This is one of the reasons I like running with NASA and PCA vs the BMW club for instance. BMW club doesn't allow open passing even in the highest run groups or their instructor run groups.
Okay, I'm back--back from SEMA and back from some running around here at home. Sorry for the delay.
So, the original question: Having said all of that, and seeing that you own both, which is the car you'd have trouble parting with and why?
If you held a gun at my head and demanded the keys to either the Porsche or the Miata, I'd have to hand over the Miata.
I have been thinking about this for a while, but then realized the answer was staring me in the face: I keep three cars (Miata, Porsche and my wife's Civic Si) crammed into a two-car garage. The Miata is parked sideways in the back corner; the Porsche can come and go as it pleases. The poor Subaru lives in the driveway.
I'm not saying that one is a better track car or autocrosser than the other, but as far as the driving/ownership experience, the Porsche is just a sliver better. The Porsche can just do a bit more--it's an iconic '60s design that can easily go cross-country. I can also autocross it, track it, and concours it. My guitar fits nicely on the rear package shelf. My wife and I can easily go away for a long weekend in it. Plus, at least here, the PCA adds a little something--events, social activities, etc. Not that it's all about dollars, but the Porsche is also worth more and has much more chance for appreciation. (And conversely, the Porsche also cost more to buy.)
The big thing, though, is the total experience: the sound of the exhaust, the smell of what can best be described as "hot oil," that amazing steering, and the view over those fenders. I have to admit, the Porsche is the first car I have owned that I'll just look at and tell myself, "Wow, I own that."
Of course, this doesn't mean that after 14 years of ownership I'm looking to sell my Miata. It's also an amazing car to drive, especially with the top down.
^Well put.
Woody wrote: ^Well put.
Thanks. And note that is just my personal opinion on this particular day.
So I read the article in the past couple issues of GRM and I would love to try a 911 at some point. How much porsche do you need before it's at least as fast or faster than a NA miata?
Thinking STS level of prep but more casual, and likely to go ahead and run 15x9 wheels with 225s which would not be STS legal. Possibly a 1.8 swap at some point (on a 1990 NA6)
Faster doing what? I can't comment on Auto-X but for DE, even a stock SC should be faster than an stock NA once you adjusted your driving style.
I want to ride in/drive an old 911 that's old enough to smell like an "old car;" you know, the ancient leather smell with the faint finish of stale gasoline.
Old 911s smell like oil and wool.
Mitchell wrote: I want to ride in/drive an old 911 that's old enough to smell like an "old car;" you know, the ancient leather smell with the faint finish of stale gasoline.
My 83 911 SC has that. Combining German seat stuffing and the smell of burnt leaked oil might as well be time travel.
BoxheadTim wrote: Faster doing what? I can't comment on Auto-X but for DE, even a stock SC should be faster than an stock NA once you adjusted your driving style.
AutoX mainly, DE sometimes, adjust the style how?. I just dont want to lose the "fun" :) not that I am doing anything soon
I don't think you'll be losing the fun, but an older 911 drives very different to a front-engined car and you have to adjust your technique accordingly.
Basically you have to enter the corner slower that you probably would in a front engined car of similar power and handling as you don't want that heavy weight behind the rear axle to get the car out of shape, but you can also step on the accelerator much harder and earlier than in a front engined car because you have so much more traction compared to a front-engined car.
Oh, and you never, ever lift while cornering unless you want to exit the corner tangentially and usually backwards. Once you're set up in a corner, there is only one way the loud pedal goes and that is down.
MrJoshua wrote:Mitchell wrote: I want to ride in/drive an old 911 that's old enough to smell like an "old car;" you know, the ancient leather smell with the faint finish of stale gasoline.My 83 911 SC has that. Combining German seat stuffing and the smell of burnt leaked oil might as well be time travel.
When did you get a 911? Why have I not yet admired it?
Woody wrote: Old 911s smell like oil and wool.
That is also acceptable.
Mitchell wrote:MrJoshua wrote:When did you get a 911? Why have I not yet admired it?Mitchell wrote: I want to ride in/drive an old 911 that's old enough to smell like an "old car;" you know, the ancient leather smell with the faint finish of stale gasoline.My 83 911 SC has that. Combining German seat stuffing and the smell of burnt leaked oil might as well be time travel.
I bought a ratty but solid 83 SC Targa from Woody for a pretty good deal many many months ago. It is currently getting the engine dropped to fix a few oil leaks.
Ooh, is this the one that he flipped a while back? It looked like a pretty solid car. Let me know it's buttoned back together; I'll bring over a six-pack that we can drink while admiring the vehicle.
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