Pardon me gentlemen, but could I please inquire of your opinions on small block Fords?

A local Porsche guy is selling this:

http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=28866

and I've found info on how to put one in my 924:

http://www.porschehybrids.com/php/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=952&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p6396

http://www.fotothing.com/951/photo/1/

I'll need a newer torque tube and transaxle to avoid the weaknesses of the non-turbo 924 parts.

Manual brakes will be needed to clear the valve cover/intake manifold.

Hydraulic clutch conversion.

Block huggers should work.

Rear sump pan and pickup

So aside from all of that, what can I do with a SBF on the cheap? Any good forums/information sources?

They like to breathe. They can't do that so well above 5,000 RPMs though. And I'm assuming that's a 302.

Heads will help you make some nice power. The engine has one (count 'em, one) camshaft, so yeah, put a matched cam in there too. So, heads, a cam, and headers! Get rid of the crush-bent manifold and get yourself some shorty headers. I had long-tubes on my Mustang and it sounded wicked (with no cats and some Mac mufflers).

I really think the heads are the weak point with the engine. I had a nice intake and the above-mentioned exhaust setup, but it didn't wake the thing up as much as I wanted it to--the heads were the bottleneck. But hell, a 1992 GT convertible that ran 14.3s on little 225mm street tires...I think that's pretty respectable.

Oh, yeah, and advance the hell out of the timing and run premium gasoline. I don't know the numbers, but you can do this for free and get some easy hp. It cost me about $4.00 more to fill the tank in the Z3 with premium when gas was $4.00 a gallon. I wish I advanced the timing on my 5.0. You live and you learn.

What SBF is it?

A 351 is a bit different from the standard Windsor engine.

I have a 351 Windsor in my wife's '48 Chevy. It's not running yet but I did have a bit of fun in the cop car I took it out of.

Plenty of power, nearly as cheap as a SBC to build.

Shawn

Don't plan on making insane power w/o strengthening the block. A coworker has a stang with a bored and stroked 302 sbf, now 331cid. It used to dyno at 405rwhp. He recently split the block in half from the timing cover all the way down the valley.

That's a non-HO, early 80's, CFI "5.0" (302 Windsor). About 175HP in stock trim. The heads are huge restrictions. Throw on a decent pair, add in a cam (super cheap since it's a flat-tappet engine, not a roller), and slap on a carburetor. Problem is $200 is WAY overpriced for a non-roller, non-HO. We literally picked up the clone of that engine for free.

Which, by the way, is for sale. With freshly rebuilt HO heads with a valve job, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, and custom ground cam with the HO firing order plus some chrome valve covers and other goodies. It was the engine for our challenge car (which is also for sale...). Challenge priced, on an engine stand

The only real difference from a 302 to a 351 is deck height and cam/firing order. Heads are interchangable, but intake manifolds are deck height specific. If you can use either kind of cam, but must match the firing order for that cam.

One quick look thrue a Summit catalog will be all you need for the engine

What is the torque rating for the transaxle? You might want to build the engine up to not exceed that limit.

P71 wrote: That's a non-HO, early 80's, CFI "5.0" (302 Windsor). About 175HP in stock trim. The heads are huge restrictions. Throw on a decent pair, add in a cam (super cheap since it's a flat-tappet engine, not a roller), and slap on a carburetor. Problem is $200 is *WAY* overpriced for a non-roller, non-HO. We literally picked up the clone of that engine for *free*. Which, by the way, is for sale. With freshly rebuilt HO heads with a valve job, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, and custom ground cam with the HO firing order plus some chrome valve covers and other goodies. It was the engine for our challenge car (which is also for sale...). Challenge priced, on an engine stand

So was the West-Coast Challenge a flop, or are you the flop?

There's always the Explorer head swap. IIRC you have to run FI to do that, dunno if that's what you had in mind.

I also have to agree that $200 for a plain vanilla 302 2bbl carbed (sorry P71, that's a Motorcraft pot metal 2bbl carb peeking out from under the glove and the mechanical fuel pump is a dead giveaway) smog motor (see the double diaphragm vacuum unit on the dizzy?) that you haven't heard run is steep.

Interesting info, thanks.....

Considering the transmissions that I can afford don't live very long behind engines making over 300hp, I don't think I'll be pushing that number too much ;)

P71, how much would your former Challenge motor go for?

Thanks!

We're the flop. Didn't plan on getting laid off... twice. So we gathered the car, the engine, the trans, and did a bunch of work, but there's no point in finishing because we can't afford to tow the sucker from Bellingham, WA (right by Canada) to San Diego, CA. If I find work and get some funds back in the account I will try to fly down and spectate.

You guys are right, it's a 2Bbl. The gloves sitting on it threw me but the fuel pump was a dead giveaway. Makes even less power then, 160ish?

fiat, Our engine should make ~250HP when fully assembled and over 300 FtLbs. The transaxle should survive as long as you don't do any slick-equipped drag launches. We're asking $400 for the motor for an eand we have over $800 in it. Good running motor, new complete gasket set, freshly rebuilt 86 HO heads with valve job (completely assembled), new custom cam (I have the card around here somewhere), Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, and even a nice, heavy duty engine stand (for an extra $100). It will need rings/bearings, rockers, headers, and a carb to finish. There's a ton of spares with the motor since we started with 2 302's. It's in Bellingham at ThunderCougarFalconGoat's house.

I like 'em.

I'd pass on that particular one, as all you'll end up using is the shortblock at best, and if you want a screamer to drop in a Porsche, you'll probably end up replacing the internals, too.

My suggestion would be to grab a late Explorer 5.0. From what I understand, they're basically the same motors that were put in the '93 Cobra.

If you're going carb'd "5.8 HO"s (read 351W w/a 4bbl carb) can be found in early '80s Broncos, if you get one, make sure to replace the timing set, though, that was the death of my second Bronco (I believe one of the gears is made of fiberplastic... shudder). Next best would be the mid-80's Mustang motor, though be careful, as there's one year (I think it's '84), where Ford did something weird to up the compression, and you have to replace the pistons to run ANY higher-than-stock lift cam without bending a valve.

I'd go for P71's, actually.

Head over to SBFTech if you want to learn about small block Fords. They've got some great tech articles there. They even have a grassroots section .

I love SBF's for CHEAP crazy power. If we don't sell the motor, it's OK (because there's a 99% chance it will replace the tired 12A in ThunderCougarFalconGoat's 82 RX-7).

The same offer is open to anybody. In fact, we should probably list the rest of the Challenge car in the Classifieds... BRB

Other than the fact you can get an EFI 302 HO for like $150 from the junkyard, yea no reason not to do it. lol

I'm reading this post with interest since my '89 Gran Marquis is all banged up and then I let a "core plug" get popped out of it this winter. So...the engine has to come out to fix that. While it's out, I might as well do some stuff to it and find a good project car to put it in...

Clem

nice title...thats all

SBF>all others!

(I grew up a Mustang boy)

If you can swing it, Trick Flow TW165 heads flow very nicely and make some serious torque/power. If you want to do it on the cheap, Explorer/GT40 iron heads are a good bet.

Easy to make 400 hp on a stock shortblock if its prepped right. Anything more and you should invest in rods, main studs, and a good windage tray.