For several years now the rumor mill has had VW and Porsche in talks to introduce a new small sports car platform that would give Porsche a model below the Boxster (which these days starts at $50K). And once again the word from on high is that the project has been cancelled.
CEO Matthias Mueller said this week that "We would do no good to the brand if we were to lose traditional Porsche customers... Possibly we need to wait until the next generation of customers before the idea of a small roadster will work for Porsche."
Because, you know, historically Porsche buyers have disliked small sports cars.
How ironic then that worry about the loss of 'traditional Porsche customers' didn't impede the rollout of the Panamera sedan, Cayenne sport-ute and the upcoming Macan crossover.
Today 75% of Porsche buyers are buying sedans and SUV's. A decade ago ('traditional Porsche customers' - right?) that number was 0. Tarted-up VW's must be the new Porsche 'tradition.'
Seriously. Porsche has lost their minds. The Cayenne was death-nell to the brand as a "sportscar" company, and now the Macan is coming out as well. Apparently traditional Porsche customers never bought 356's, 550's, or 914's. Freaking idiots 
It's not the vehicle, it's the pricepoint. Porsche owners want to be seen as wealthy and having more affordable vehicles would diminish that appearance. 911 owners already look down on Boxster drivers.
I actually see where he's coming from. Porsches are expensive cars. The idea that a car(or a suit, a pair of shoes, the color of your credit card) projects wealth and social status is very important to a large number of people.
"Cheapening the Brand" in quest of an even larger sales volume isn't always the right direction.
Whether we as the small MAYBE 5% of people in the world who are car enthusiasts in the world think this is good or not, Porsche doesn't care, and why should they?
They're selling lots of expensive cars. Who cares what we think?
DaveEstey wrote:
It's not the vehicle, it's the pricepoint. Porsche owners want to be seen as wealthy and having more affordable vehicles would diminish that appearance. 911 owners already look down on Boxster drivers.
The base (non-S) Boxster starts at $49,500. The base Cayenne starts at $48,500. The Macan will start below that.
You can't possibly tell me that a $40,000 to start roadster would cheapen the brand when they will have a "cute ute" doing the exact same thing.
DaveEstey wrote:
It's not the vehicle, it's the pricepoint. Porsche owners want to be seen as wealthy and having more affordable vehicles would diminish that appearance. 911 owners already look down on Boxster drivers.
+1.
And it does not just apply to use values, but to how much money they can make vs. the volume they sell. There's not a massive market for "lowish" cost sports cars, so it would really hurt to pretty much lose money on all of the "low cost" cars. (aka- double volume is NOT half the cost- not even close)
A fair-sized chunk of what draws most people to Porsche is the brand image. While I would love a more affordable new Porsche, I'm afraid that the CEO is probably right about this one.
Javelin wrote:
DaveEstey wrote:
It's not the vehicle, it's the pricepoint. Porsche owners want to be seen as wealthy and having more affordable vehicles would diminish that appearance. 911 owners already look down on Boxster drivers.
The base (non-S) Boxster *starts* at $49,500. The base Cayenne starts at $48,500. The Macan will start *below* that.
You can't possibly tell me that a $40,000 to start roadster would cheapen the brand when they will have a "cute ute" doing the exact same thing.
Your definition of "cheapen" is about preception, the real cheapen may actually be financial. If it cost P $35k to sell a car they sell for $50k, I can't see it dropping much below $30k for a car they sell for $40k. On a relative basis, the loss of 50% of the profit margin it is a ton.
those are estimates, but I suspect there something about that going on.
I can see the business case.
I think the long-term concern, well-founded or not, is that if at some point they have to revert to selling on a reputation for excellent and focused sports cars rather than primarily on prestige, a couple of decades of SUVs and even selling their sports cars in variations clearly aimed at allowing people to fill niches in their collections may not leave them in an ideal position to do so.
Wether this is a valid concern or not from a business perspective, I don't know.
Again, they already have a $48K SUV with a $38K mini-SUV on the way. How the eff does that NOT "cheapen the brand", but a $40K sportscar would??!?
DaveEstey wrote:
It's not the vehicle, it's the pricepoint. Porsche owners want to be seen as wealthy and having more affordable vehicles would diminish that appearance. 911 owners already look down on Boxster drivers.
Or, in other words, maybe he's trying to find a tactful way to say, "The world will be ready for a cheaper Porsche once they stop telling the joke about the difference between a Porsche and a porcupine."
Makes more sense to really separate Porsche as:
Porsche Sportscars
Porsche SUVs.
Their image is not built on SUVs, they just happen to sell SUVs. (and lots of them)
Their image is built on sports cars. Build a cheap sports car, cheapen the image.
Also, what Alfa said.
In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
I would be surprised if as many as 5% of 911 owners are enthusiasts. This is a 300 million person country and GRM has a circulation of 60,000, SCCA has a membership of around 50,000. The Columbus, OH metro is 2 million people and the biggest autocross I've been to here was maybe 200 drivers (that is a WAG, but you get the idea).
Javelin wrote:
Again, they already have a $48K SUV with a $38K mini-SUV on the way. How the eff does that NOT "cheapen the brand", but a $40K sportscar would??!?
number of potential sales.
There's a sizeable market for 'performance CUVs' and it's still not fully realized.
OTOH, the sportscar market is pretty well saturated. I'd be willing to bet that if you combine the Miata, Vette, 911... all of the typical sports cars up, it would still be less than 100k. Well less. Probably less than the sum of all P-mini CUV sales will be. And that matters.
So it barely makes sense to build a low cost version of a car for an already tiny market.
alfadriver wrote:
OTOH, the sportscar market is pretty well saturated. I'd be willing to bet that if you combine the Miata, Vette, 911... all of the typical sports cars up, it would still be less than 100k. Well less. Probably less than the sum of all P-mini CUV sales will be. And that matters.
This depresses me greatly... That any one would buy a CUV over a sports car.
ShadowSix wrote:
I would be surprised if as many as 5% of 911 owners are enthusiasts.
I hope to god you're wrong!
(Not saying that you are, though)
Javelin wrote:
Again, they already have a $48K SUV with a $38K mini-SUV on the way. How the eff does that NOT "cheapen the brand", but a $40K sportscar would??!?
The brand is built on the 911.
Adding a small CUV doesn't do anything to the image of the 911. It's a little like being Rolex and deciding to build a wall clock. It can be cheaper than their watches because it's not a watch and won't really do much to mess with people's view of their watches because that's not what it is. If they can build wall clocks and make a bunch of money off of them, great. They still want to build expensive watches and preserve their "watch image", and a lower priced watch would mess with that.
That's where porsche is. If they can continue to build the 911 and have it considered one of the great cars in the world then they can build SUV's with the same branding and make a pile of money off of them and not mess with their "sports car image". It may sound idiotic, but it's been working quite well for them. The Cayanne has done more for them than the Boxter ever did and I'm sure the new CUV will make them a pile of money.
They're just out to make money like everyone else and it's pretty clear that they're doing a real good job of it these days.
I don't like that they aren't selling any smaller cheaper sports cars, but it's not where the money is. Look at Lotus; they've stuck to their core philosophy of building the BEST small, relatively inexpensive sports cars you can get, and they've been on the edge of bankruptcy for a decade.
I would point to the 914 and 944 and say, "well it worked back then", but I think times have changed and the Porsche brand is way more about wealth than about sports cars - and it's been working for them...
God forbid anyone who actually races the things is able to afford a new Porsche. Middle-aged executives who just tool around town, those are the types that need to be seen in Porsches!
Porsche now = Toyota in mid 90s.
Javelin wrote:
Again, they already have a $48K SUV with a $38K mini-SUV on the way. How the eff does that NOT "cheapen the brand", but a $40K sportscar would??!?
Considering that the pair of 2011 Q5s start at mid-$30,000 and low-$40,000 price points, and allowing for a roughly two-year time lag before sales begin, we’d guess the Macan will come in at around $52,000 minimum and reach well past $60,000 for a well-equipped top-line Turbo model.
In reply to Otto Maddox:
Why would Porsche price the Macan, a smaller vehicle with smaller engines built on a volume platform, at $12K more than it's larger, larger-engined, and semi-unique platformed Cayenne? That doesn't make any sense at all.
In reply to Otto Maddox:
So you're saying the price on the Cayenne is going to magically jump $20K then?
