Porsche CEO: cheaper sports car would hurt brand

In reply to Otto Maddox:

So, again, the Cayenne starts at $48K. The Macan is "below" that car. Ergo, the Macan will start at less than $48K. If the Macan starts at $52K as you claim, the base Cayenne will have to jump to at least $58K.

So which is it hoss?

Javelin wrote: Again, they already have a $48K SUV with a $38K mini-SUV on the way. How the eff does that NOT "cheapen the brand", but a $40K sportscar would??!?

I'm confused now. Is the Cayenne $48k or $38k?

In reply to Javelin:

Neither.

In reply to Javelin:

Your assumptions are flawed.

I can understand where Porsche is coming from. They're a business. A big one. i.e. not a boutique builder. They want to make money and SUVs and luxury is where the money is. There are a multitude of reasons not to make a cheaper sporscar. Exclusivity is one of them. Imagine that they come up with a $30,000 car and it gets spanked by a Hyundai. That would jeopardize the cachet that they've worked all these years to build so that they could sell another 15 thousand entry level coupes a year.

This isn't your grandpa's Porsche.

GameboyRMH wrote: God forbid anyone who actually races the things is able to afford a new Porsche. Middle-aged executives who just tool around town, those are the types that need to be seen in Porsches! Porsche now = Toyota in mid 90s.

Doing some final warm-ups before jumping the shark for good?

The real solution is to use Porsche technology to build a real sports car for VW. Sort of a 4-cylinder Boxster-like vehicle.

Otherwise, a small Porsche would cheapen their image. Period. Just due to perception alone. Sad but true.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

Javelin wrote: Again, they already have a $48K SUV with a $38K mini-SUV on the way. How the eff does that NOT "cheapen the brand", but a $40K sportscar would??!?

I'm confused now. Is the Cayenne $48k or $38k?

Confused about what? I've never said the Cayenne is anything but $48K. The Macan is supposed to be $38K.

kreb wrote: I can understand where Porsche is coming from. They're a business. A big one. i.e. not a boutique builder. They want to make money and SUVs and luxury is where the money is. There are a multitude of reasons not to make a cheaper sporscar. Exclusivity is one of them. Imagine that they come up with a $30,000 car and it gets spanked by a Hyundai.

Imagine they built a $50000 dollar car and it got spanked by a Chevy. Oh wait...

turboswede wrote: The real solution is to use Porsche technology to build a real sports car for VW. Sort of a 4-cylinder Boxster-like vehicle.

This and hell they could even put something like a handling by Porsche on it and it would probably help both brands.

93EXCivic wrote:

turboswede wrote: The real solution is to use Porsche technology to build a real sports car for VW. Sort of a 4-cylinder Boxster-like vehicle.

This and hell they could even put something like a handling by Porsche on it and it would probably help both brands.

Makes me think of my old Impulse. Those Lotus badges were the coolest part of the car.

In reply to Javelin:

Actually you did say the Cayenne is 38k which isn't 48k.

In reply to Otto Maddox:

So the Macan will be more expensive than the larger Cayenne? I'm sorry, I'm not following your logic here. What assumptions are wrong? That the Macan is below-market to the Cayenne? That a below-market car has to be cheaper than the upmarket one? Can't you just explain it instead of being so cryptic???

Javelin wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

Javelin wrote: Again, they already have a $48K SUV with a $38K mini-SUV on the way. How the eff does that NOT "cheapen the brand", but a $40K sportscar would??!?

I'm confused now. Is the Cayenne $48k or $38k?

Confused about what? I've never said the Cayenne is anything *but* $48K. The *Macan* is supposed to be $38K.

Otto Maddox wrote: Considering that the pair of 2011 Q5s start at mid-$30,000 and low-$40,000 price points, and allowing for a roughly two-year time lag before sales begin, we’d guess the Macan will come in at around $52,000 minimum and reach well past $60,000 for a well-equipped top-line Turbo model.

Javelin wrote: In reply to Otto Maddox: So, again, the Cayenne starts at $38K. The Macan is "below" that car. Ergo, the Macan will start at *less* than $38K. If the Macan starts at $52K as you claim, the base Cayenne will have to jump to at least $58K. So which is it hoss?

We've got.... $38k... $40k ($52k - $12k = $40k), $48k... and Porsche's own website saying $46.5k.

Ahhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

turboswede wrote: The real solution is to use Porsche technology to build a real sports car for VW. Sort of a 4-cylinder Boxster-like vehicle. Otherwise, a small Porsche would cheapen their image. Period. Just due to perception alone. Sad but true.

What technology? there's nothing that Porsche does that VW can't do.

And we had a 4cyl boxter like car, they called an MR2. You know, the one with the drop top. VW could use parts that they already have so that they could save money, and then MAYBE they could not lose money on such a low volume product. Or maybe we can talk Toyota into reviving it with the new engine they make with subaru. They'll sell literally thousands (only).

(and I still can't fathom how Mazda sells enough Miatas for them to make financial sense- glad they do, though)

Pricing has not been revealed, though the Macan will likely be a considerable step up from the $36,000 to $44,000 price range of the current Audi Q5.

MG Bryan wrote: In reply to Javelin: Actually you *did* say the Cayenne is 38k which isn't 48k.

Sorry, typo.

In reply to Otto Maddox:

Just explain it man! For cripes sake! You keep quoting from some other source but you've yet to state at all what the eff will happen with the Cayenne.

Even Porsche isn't stupid enough to to say "well the Macan is $48K, but so is the Cayenne, so uh, you pick?" I mean seriously, just answer the damn question.

In reply to alfadriver:

In recent years, Porsche has been known by enthusiasts more for IMS failures, catastrophic oil leaks, etc., than anything else. The last of the "old" 911s are more expensive than the first of the "new" 911s. That isn't a good sign.

What's truly ironic is that the folks who brought the world a cheap, "people's car...are also responsible/indirectly in control of, Porsche.

Looking at the marketting moves made by VW and then looking at the other "volume" German car companies (opel excluded?) the motto seems to be: if we can charge more for "it", we will.

I'm actually NOT surprised Porsche is using this argument yet again for not offering a small / entry level car. The "hangover" from the 914 will apparently last into the middle of this century....or until ALL 914s have reverted to metal oxide, PLUS, another 25 years for good measure.

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

I made a typo trying to converse with Mr. Crytptic. You've posted an internet comic that has no bearing, and re-quoted nearly the entire thread, twice. Do you have a point today?

Javelin wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: I made a typo trying to converse with Mr. Crytptic. You've posted an internet comic that has no bearing, and re-quoted nearly the entire thread, *twice*. Do you have a point today?

Chill. Not to get you riled up, but you also consciously typed that @ $52k, the Macan is starting at $12k higher than the Cayenne.

This whole thread has gotten ridiculously confusing, when the correct answer was likely posted on the first page.

Nobody cares about Porsche SUVs. They aren't the brand image (a point agreed upon by most in this thread), and the Macan has no bearing on whether or not Porsche will make a cheap sports car.

Otto is quoting things, and you're trying to argue with HIM over things that he never even wrote in the first place. Take a breath.

Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to Javelin: Your assumptions are flawed.

As Javelin said, you are being incredibly super beyond comprehension cryptic. You win the trolling internets award today, but damn...

Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to alfadriver: In recent years, Porsche has been known by enthusiasts more for IMS failures, catastrophic oil leaks, etc., than anything else. The last of the "old" 911s are more expensive than the first of the "new" 911s. That isn't a good sign.

It's not that hard to engineer IN those kinds of failures.

The real problem is that VW engineers would likely engineer them right out, again.

Financially, P understands the size of the market (which is small for sports cars), and they also clearly understand where they stand in that market in terms of volumes. To make any money, their sales prices have to high enough to at least match the low volumes out of a plant.

What killed Saab is that they were selling P kinds of sales numbers at Audi pricing. that's a money loss equation every decade.

They can sell a LOT more CUV's than cars, and they know it. So far, it's not taken away from the price they can charge, so good for them.