Javelin wrote:
In reply to Otto Maddox:
Just explain it man! For cripes sake! You keep quoting from some other source but you've yet to state *at all* what the eff will happen with the Cayenne.
Even Porsche isn't stupid enough to to say "well the Macan is $48K, but so is the Cayenne, so uh, you pick?" I mean seriously, just answer the damn question.
OK, you have me laughing.
I am just guessing, but here goes. I am not making the estimates, just quoting them. A V6 Cayenne with the most basic of option packages is about $55K. In two years, figure that will be more like $58K. So, I would suspect a Macan coming in $5K-$10K under that with basic options sounds about right.
But your guess is as good as mine, I suppose.
integraguy wrote:
What's truly ironic is that the folks who brought the world a cheap, "people's car...are also responsible/indirectly in control of, Porsche.
Looking at the marketting moves made by VW and then looking at the other "volume" German car companies (opel excluded?) the motto seems to be: if we can charge more for "it", we will.
I'm actually NOT surprised Porsche is using this argument yet again for not offering a small / entry level car. The "hangover" from the 914 will apparently last into the middle of this century....or until ALL 914s have reverted to metal oxide, PLUS, another 25 years for good measure.
There's just no money in a "people's sports car".
Everybody is getting riled up. I was being cryptic because I am hesitant to argue with Javelin. He always ends up with the caps lock on.
In reply to Otto Maddox:
Cripes man, was that so hard? So the Cayenne is probably heading up market a little bit, but there still won't be much room between them. That makes sense, I guess. There's a lot of overlap in 911 and Panamera pricing, and little with the Boxster/Cayman as well.
In reply to Otto Maddox:
I never said you were wrong, or even argued with you. I asked you to clarify your point. Maybe you should read more and spend less time trolling? 
Javelin wrote:
In reply to Otto Maddox:
I never said you were wrong, or even argued with you. I asked you to clarify your point. Maybe you should read more and spend less time trolling?
Come on. We are 944 brethren. If we can't get along, there is no hope.
All the sources I am seeing on the internet are saying between $40k and $45k starting.
In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
What's with the "take a breath" thing? Is that some sort of 4chan/lolcats internet meme I haven't heard of yet? I'm not out of breath, or arguing, or even riled up slightly. I just asked some questions from Mr. Cryptic who apparently thought it would be funny to make 2 pages out of a simple "the hell if I know, but Porsche says the pricing will be where the Cayenne is now". Why does everybody over-complicate things?
alfadriver wrote:
Otto Maddox wrote:
In reply to alfadriver:
In recent years, Porsche has been known by enthusiasts more for IMS failures, catastrophic oil leaks, etc., than anything else. The last of the "old" 911s are more expensive than the first of the "new" 911s. That isn't a good sign.
It's not that hard to engineer IN those kinds of failures.
The real problem is that VW engineers would likely engineer them right out, again. 
I am pretty sure VW engineers would leave those problems and add in constantly dieing taillights and a check engine light that stays on constantly.
In reply to Javelin:
In all seriousness, where did you hear $38K?
In reply to Otto Maddox:
Car & Driver probably. Or Autoblog. Those are the only non-GRM places I read. Base V6 Macan @ $38K. Joey saw $40K, so same ballpark. It could be wrong, I don't care. That's why I was trying to figure what you were saying, because $52K to start is a way, way higher price, and solidly in Cayenne territory, which just didn't make any sense. If they start at $45K-ish and bump the Cayenne up a bit to $52K-ish, that'll be a decent spread. Just trying to figure out if Porsche is going down-market, or taking the Cayenne up-market.
Down would be a poor reflection on their no sports-car under $50K comment that the thread is based on (seriously though people, since when is a $40-$45K 2-seats sportscar an "everyman's car"? It's not like there'd be a ton of people who could still afford that).
IF Porsche is going to build SUVs, CUVs, and the big luxury car.... would it be too hard to ask for a 3series sized coupe' to compete against BMW?
mad_machine wrote:
... would it be too hard to ask for a 3series sized coupe' to compete against BMW?
Isn't that Audi territory?
Edit-But so is that other stuff, kind of. Now my brain is broken
I'll take a Cayman.
In reply to mad_machine:
I doubt there is enough margin in that. And it would probably cannibalize Cayman sales.
Fluffing up somebody else's SUV with no real R&D costs of your own is a pretty easy way to make money in the short term.
Seriously though, if a $40-$45K CUV is okay, why not a $45K sportscar? The new Boxster's prices are already going up anyways, so there's enough "room" there. VW is dying to do it's BlueTec Roadster, so there's already some parent-company enthusiasm (and likely, platform engineering that's already happened).
Sorry, it just seems really odd (or stupid) that one of the world's most renowned sportscar manufacturers says that a lower priced (because it sure ain't "entry-priced") sportscar doesn't appeal to their brand, but a cheaper cute-ute does. Like alternate-universe weird.
Especially when their past products include the 356 Standard, the 912, the 912E, the 914, the 924, the 944, the 968, and even the original 986 Boxster. It's not like it would be out of line for them to make a sportscar in that range.
$40-$45K is Audi TT / TTS, 1M Coupe, Z4, base Corvette, G Coupe IPL, SLK, 370Z territory, it's pretty much the sweet spot of high-end sports cars for everybody else, and a market that the Boxster started in 15+ years ago.
Otto Maddox wrote:
In reply to mad_machine:
I doubt there is enough margin in that. And it would probably cannibalize Cayman sales.
Fluffing up somebody else's SUV with no real R&D costs of your own is a pretty easy way to make money in the short term.
not really, the Cayman is a two seater.. to be a 3 series fighter, it would need to have a back seat..
Its the same reason the Corvette gets dissed at times, because chevy also produces the volt and aveo.... so how can a company that makes the aveo also make a legit super car, its performance numbers say its a super car, but its bow tie emblem says its not....
I know ALOT of people who think the for GT, nissan SKYLINE, and chvy Vette are good cars but not SUPER cars like the audi R8 or M3/5 or Aston or name you traditional super car, but it is never based on performance, its based on stigma and stereotype...
In reply to mad_machine:
Yeah. The Cayman isn't a 3 series fighter at all. But if Porsche had a 3-series fighter, people might opt for it instead of a less useful Cayman.
EricM wrote:
profit margin
I don't even think its margin so much as volume. CUV's are hot hot hot right now. You want to print money on volume, get yourself a popular CUV. Porsche is playing the game properly, even if we don't like it.
With all of the other good cars out there right now, what does anybody expect Porsche to deliver for $35k that somebody else doesn't already? Except for the badge that is.
mazdeuce wrote:
EricM wrote:
profit margin
I don't even think its margin so much as volume. CUV's are hot hot hot right now. You want to print money on volume, get yourself a popular CUV. Porsche is playing the game properly, even if we don't like it.
With all of the other good cars out there right now, what does anybody expect Porsche to deliver for $35k that somebody else doesn't already? Except for the badge that is.
Margin + volume define how much money you can make- they work totally together in this kind of decision for P.
A $40k car and a $40k SUV cost pretty close to the same to make, given the same number of cylinders in an engine. When you can sell 50k vs. 10k a year, it covers the cost of running the plant a whole lot faster. Or at a $45k price point vs. a $60k price.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:
I have this saved on my computer as javelin.jpg, just an FYI.
In reply to Osterkraut:
Lots of free time what with that non-running RX-7 and the little Fiat hanging around, eh? Didn't know you could finish projects so fast. 
