Otto Maddox wrote: A V6 Cayenne with the most basic of option packages is about $55K.
I hate to be "That guy", but the 3.2 Cayenne starts at $48,850.
The Q7 starts at $46,250.
That's about a 5% markup on the Audi.
The current Q5 starts at $35,600
This is oversimplifying, but if you add 5% to the Q5, you should get Macan pricing, right?
Therefore, the new Macan should start at or around $37,380
In reply to Osterkraut:
I'm already 2 years into my 5 year plan, progress isn't too hot. 
turboswede wrote: The real solution is to use Porsche technology to build a real sports car for VW. Sort of a 4-cylinder Boxster-like vehicle. Otherwise, a small Porsche would cheapen their image. Period. Just due to perception alone. Sad but true.
Porsche has been down this road before.
US market:
European market:
The 914-6 faced a lot of internal competition at Porsche because the perception was it could outperform the big $ flagship 911 and the 916 went even further down that road. I can tell you from personal experience my 914 was a LOT easier to drive at anywhere near the limit than a 911 of the era, and the six shooter would have made it every bit as fast. That had a lot to do with the 914-6 and 916's limited numbers, but the 914-4 was also the best selling Porsche ever in raw numbers until, IIRC, the 944.
GM did the same thing with the Fiero, that car could have been improved all to hell out of their parts bin on coffee break money but the result could have been a direct competitor to the flagship Corvette for a lot less money.
In reply to Curmudgeon:
Yep and yep! That stupidity of protecting the halo car also killed the Pontiac Banshee:
Before it ever made production. Would have been a sweet car, too.
Javelin wrote: Seriously. Porsche has lost their minds. The Cayenne was death-nell to the brand as a "sportscar" company, and now the Macan is coming out as well. Apparently traditional Porsche customers never bought 356's, 550's, or 914's. Freaking *idiots*
Not really. The SUVs saved the company. It was a smart decision then and, in retrospect, it still is. Porsche still builds some of the world's greatest sportscars that cover a huge pricepoint. They also build very good SUVs and fantastic 4 doors-most of which possess much of the Porsche "feel". Many loyalists(you know, the same folks that initially thought the 911 ruined the company) have come around after a period of indignation and now own additional Porsche product. Considering that what many consider to be the "purist" Porsche(the Cayman) has been a tough sell in comparison, why would they think it prudent to continue down that path with an even cheaper model and its greatly reduced profits?
Javelin wrote: In reply to Curmudgeon: Yep and yep! That stupidity of protecting the halo car also killed the Pontiac Banshee:
I don't know how stupid it was, as the Corvette has been with us since 1953 and is better than ever? That Banshee was sweet though.
Javelin wrote: $40-$45K is Audi TT / TTS, 1M Coupe, Z4, base Corvette, G Coupe IPL, SLK, 370Z territory, it's pretty much the sweet spot of high-end sports cars for everybody else, and a market that the Boxster started in 15+ years ago.
Because everyone else is there is the exact reason that they don't want to be there. For the sake of brand image they want thier "entry level" sports cars to be perceived as being in a higher playing field than most other mass manufacturers premium sports models.
Sorry but there just isn't going to be a 944 equivalent any time soon.
In reply to forzav12:
Stupid for thinking it would have killed off the Corvette. The person who would buy a small, light, OHC 6 sports car isn't normally interested in a big V8, medium-sized super car.
I would not be surprised if there was no love for a "cheaper" car from dealers as well.
Why? Service.
Think about it - today's typical new Porsche owner is not going to quibble much about the cost of servicing the car. If they bring in the type of folks who would buy a cheaper Porsche, they may be less willing to pay for the Porsche service premiuim. A secondary affect would be these folks would be less likely to maintain the car to Porsche standards, so you end up with a car that has faults and breaks due to deferred maintenance. But since people never want to accept blame for their car breaking, the brand will get blamed, thus bringing down the brand as a whole.
Combine all this with the fact lower priced cars have lower profit margins, so you have to sell more of them and work harder doing so and it becomes a car many dealers might not want to bother with.
I would still be nice if the concept lived on as a VW...
Javelin wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: What's with the "take a breath" thing? Is that some sort of 4chan/lolcats internet meme I haven't heard of yet? I'm not out of breath, or arguing, or even riled up slightly. I just asked some questions from Mr. Cryptic who apparently thought it would be funny to make 2 pages out of a simple "the hell if I know, but Porsche says the pricing will be where the Cayenne is now". Why does everybody over-complicate things?
There's no special meaning to "take a breath." It was merely a suggestion to calm down, as your posts made it look like you were on the verge of turning on your caps lock with a vengeance again. 
Also: I'm on the "Never" plan.
Javelin wrote: In reply to forzav12: Stupid for thinking it would have killed off the Corvette. The person who would buy a small, light, OHC 6 sports car isn't normally interested in a big V8, medium-sized super car.
Who is actually thinking that?
It's also possible that the Banshee would never make a cent, and Pontiac didn't need a Corvette like car that can lose money since it sold other cars.
Especially since an OHC I6 will sell for less than the V8, but the cost of building the car will likely not be all that different.
While it's true that many cars are not brought to light due to internal competition, I think as many cars, if not more, are not brought to light since the numbers never added up. Especially when compared to the obvious alternative.
Here's an example- how many here think that the original SHO engine was for the Taurus? It wasn't- I've seen the car it was designed for- it was a mid-engined high performance sports car for the late 80's (the car is part of the Roush collection- or at least it was 20 years ago). This board would go gaga over it- and it would not have really competed against the Mustang.
But the alternative was the Explorer.
Yea, as an enthusiest, it would have been neat to have that car. But you can't really compare a car that may have sold 30,000 ever vs. one that sold 30,000 a MONTH in it's heyday.
So what came out the same time the banshee was canceled? Probably something that made GM a lot of money.
Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to mad_machine: Yeah. The Cayman isn't a 3 series fighter at all. But if Porsche had a 3-series fighter, people might opt for it instead of a less useful Cayman.
A 3 series fighter might also have more volume potential, or some sort of 4 seat sports coupe (like the 944 was). But this one might again be an image problem - particularly if they built something that could get smoked by the new 5.0 Mustangs. (Then again, the 944 was slower in a straight line than the Fox body 5.0s - but the new one might be a threat in corners too.)
In reply to Ian F:
So what do you say to Porsche bringing out a cheaper SUV then?
In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
I've never caps locked post on this forum (or any other forum, actually).
In reply to alfadriver:
Actually, GM execs themselves, many enthusiast magazines, and historical books have all said that the Banshee was axed in fear of cannibalizing the Corvette. You're right on a lot of other cars, but this is one case where we know it was internal competition, straight from the horse's mouths.
Javelin wrote: In reply to alfadriver: Actually, GM execs themselves, many enthusiast magazines, and historical books have *all* said that the Banshee was axed in fear of cannibalizing the Corvette. You're right on a lot of other cars, but this is one case where we know it was internal competition, straight from the horse's mouths.
Did they, or is that popular "common" lore? Geeze- that happened just about the time I was born, so unless I go back and read the publications at the time, I would seriously question someone that claims that they heard Ed Cole say "we had to cut this product".....
If the book directly quotes the executive, that would be one thing. If it doesn't, the BS-o-meter flies in the face of reality. If John Delorean came out and said it, I would actually question his motives, too- he was always a chest pounder for Pontiac. If anyone who was part of GM or Chevy said it, it would be more applicable.
And I give no credence to enthusiest magazines to impart non-biased opinions on why cars were cut. What they "know" is that a car that they think they wanted was cut, and since it appeard to be just like a Vette, it must have been related.
Oddly enough, virtually the same car surfaced as the Opel GT, and someone at Bonneville even put the Pontiac I6 into it....
History has a funny way of being recorded.
Just like for this P-car- IMHO, given the current market, it does not make a whole lot of sense to make a mid-priced car that costs basically the same to make as the high priced car, and the volumes are not much different- certainly not enough to call mass production. To think that "it will kill the 911" ignores some pretty basic economics. The only company out there who seemes to have solved the cost riddle the best is Mazda and the Miata. Everyone else has come and gone pretty quickly in the low to mid priced sports car market, unless it's there to sell other cars.
(OTOH, volumes for CUV's DO justify making it)
Javelin wrote: In reply to Ian F: So what do you say to Porsche bringing out a cheaper SUV then?
SUV's tend to be cheaper to build and thus more profitable, especially when the platform is shared with other high-volume VAG products.
Porsche has proven with the Cayenne they are willing to take some risk with regards to the brand image in the name of profits. They obviously feel the cheaper SUV is a lesser risk than a cheaper sports car.
In reply to alfadriver:
Okay, sure, you're right.
You'll need to log in to post.
