Porsche Unveils Lightweight Boxster

I'll try to put it in some perspective by utilizing my own experience.

The 1992 Miata I just bought has A/C and it's probably the only thing I wish it didn't (it will probably come out soon). Every thing else about the car is so nice and simple. No power steering, crank windows, manual locks. When I toss it into a corner on crappy no-name tires, I can feel how light the car is. If it didn't have A/C I'd have one less belt, too!

Even with the little 1.6 liter engine, on a twisty back road, I feel like the car is never lacking for power, and has such poise and athleticism. I feel that if driven properly on my favorite twisty road near my house, this little car could keep up with my fully loaded '91 911 C4 all day long (so long as the road didn't straighten out!). The 1977 Carrera 3.0 that I had (no power steering, manual clutch, manual brakes, etc.) was a similar story. Even though it had probably 50hp less than my C4, it felt just as quick and certainly felt lighter. It's like I can feel the 15 years of bloat that got added. I know my C4 is faster and holds the road better, but it definitely feels heavier (and it is-for the record, I got it because it was a good deal, not because it is my ideal 911, I'm still looking for that).

It just makes me think that the original formula worked. This original formula launched the miata and made it an icon and the benchmark by which all others were measured. I feel like they've gotten away from it, as has every other performance oriented manufacturer. They've standardized features and added weight to appease the masses, but in the process they have lost touch/sight of what made them such a joy in the first place, the simplicity, ease of use, and driveability - without the need or want for abs, gps, psm, asm, awd, pw, pl, ps, ac, mfd, ipod, mp3, tpms . . .

I hope people don't think I'm being stubborn or pig-headded here (actually, I know you all well enough that you would just come out and say as much ) but we are the crowd that actually understands what "adding lightness" means - and I'm not saying it should be a mainstream offering or anything like that - actually I like the idea of an option-delete build spec. I'm just saying that when Porsche comes out with this "lightweight" Boxster, it shouldn't be a suprise or a big announcement, it should be grounds fees for the manufacturer to have such an offering.

Carrera4 wrote: The 1992 Miata I just bought has A/C and it's probably the only thing I wish it didn't (it will probably come out soon). Every thing else about the car is so nice and simple. No power steering, crank windows, manual locks. When I toss it into a corner on crappy no-name tires, I can feel how light the car is. If it didn't have A/C I'd have one less belt, too!

I absolutly agree with your sentiment, but, make that BUT. Would you have paid $20,000 for a car specd like that? It's one thing to buy a bare bones toy, but would you buy a new vehcile like that? honestly?

The problem is that new vehicles, by your own argument tend to need to be functional as real cars, that's the problem.

Well, in 1990 that car did cost more than $20k in today's money. And it was pretty popular. But times have changed.

Adrian said: Good point Keith but that £13715 Cooper is $22,766 at today's exchange rate. Over here the Cooper is the entry level low margin vehicle where over there it's the mid/upper level with higher margins. The chances are they couldn't afford to sell the First over here for $15,010, not forgetting that it hasn't been subjected to EPA/CAFE yet.

I didn't use the exchange rates because 1) UK vehicle prices are high and 2) the price quoted was an "on the road" price in the UK, and I'm not sure exactly what that includes. So I figured what the percentage difference was between the First and the Cooper, and used that. The "base" model in the US would be high spec in the UK, but I didn't spend an hour comparing the features. That is left as an exercise to the reader if they're interested There's also the possibility of the MINI One. Anyhow, my point is that there are stripper MINIs in existence.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: I absolutly agree with your sentiment, but, make that BUT. Would you have paid $20,000 for a car specd like that? It's one thing to buy a bare bones toy, but would you buy a new vehcile like that? honestly? The problem is that new vehicles, by your own argument tend to need to be functional as real cars, that's the problem.

Back in 2000 when I bought my first Miata - and first brand new car, I honestly would have bought one like this, but at the time I couldn't order one without A/C, PS, PW. It would still have been perfectly useable, as is my current '92, as was my '81 RX-7 with manual steering, a/c that didn't work and was subsequently removed, crank windows, etc.

I can see what Adrian is getting at. In 05 I had the option to spend my money on the cheaper GT, but I didn't. I'm happily driving the full-option version.

I hadn't thought about the regulation testing (CAFE, etc) that deletes would incur. That does complicate things somewhat, although I think the development cost mentioned would be minimal IF it was co developed from the beginning.

Interesting that the non-AC miata is only 31 lbs lighter. I have seen a guy really weight-strip a late model Mustang (way past what I'd street drive) and I think he might have lost 300 #s on it?

So, what is 30 lbs worth on an autox course? how bout 300?

as much as I light the idea of adding lightness, I wonder just how critical it is with modern drivetrains.

Adding lightness is just as critical with modern drivetrains. After all, cars still have to corner and stop!

I'd believe 31 lbs for AC on a Miata. It's actually tough to pull significant weight out of one because they're built to be pretty light in the first place. Less so with the new cars. The 1990s are difficult to drop much weight at all because the dash is made of cardboard and the carpets are super-thin. I seem to recall that a stripped-out Miata and a stripped-out S2000 weigh in about the same, despite a fairly significant initial weight difference.

Wasn't the 1995 Mustang GTS a fairly stripped GT for less money, and Ford couldn't give them away?

Bob

Strippped out cheap "racer" models are a tough sell because they still cost too much. It is far easlier to by a 2-3 year old low option car than a brand new "racer" model. Plus once you mod it warrenty goes away so what is the value in new off the lot vs 2-3 years old?

In the Porsche world their are people with money that want to "buy performance" and will spend alot more to get a lot less. However that is low volume production to start with.