Possible 240z Purchase...Need Advice

Hi all!

I love 240z's, they're one of my favorite older cars and I think Nissan/Datsun absolutely nailed the design of them. I'd love to own one.

Luckily, the opportunity came up to purchase a 240z from a coworker's family. The car is 4+ hours away, and my plan is to drive out to pick it up on my trailer. The owner is a doctor, and bought the car out of storage about 12 years ago. After he bought it, he wanted to have it repainted, which eventually turned into a mini-restoration to fix some of the underlying rust issues that existed. Specifically, I know the floors have been replaced, along with the rocker panels, and some exterior body panels. I've spoke with the shop that did the work, and they claim that no/minimal bondo was used, and that any rust was cut out and new metal (either replacement panels or hand shaped) was welded in.

The car looks to be in great shape on the exterior and interior. It's beautiful (just look at the pictures below!) and the repaint in the factory color appears to have been done very well. From all the pictures I have seen it exhibits minimal to no rust in the usual places. It's been mechanically kept up and supposedly drives very well.

Asking price is in the low teens, which I find to be fair for a car that's in good-but-not-perfect shape.

Here's my conundrum: I asked for undercarriage pictures and there were a few things that threw up red flags for me. Take a look at these pictures:

You can clearly see where the floors were cut out and welded in (although the welds/cuts don't look very smooth or even to me). The possibly bigger issue though is the frame rails. For one, they're two different lengths. The Driver's side is very clearly not OEM and was replaced with a full length rail, I assume when the floors were replaced. Additionally, the passenger rail looks to have been cut, since from the factory the end is capped off and this appears to be open.

Also, when looking at pictures of the rocker panels, I know they've been replaced, or at least worked on. From the factory, there should be a seam below the door here where the rocker panel meets the rear 1/4 panel. On this car, it's gone. This is apparently fairly common when these get replaced, but I have little way of knowing if it's all metal or if a lot of bondo was used:

My question for the group is: How big of a concern is that? Replacement frame rails are availiable for the car, so I know I could always have the work re-done, but should I be worried about the quality of the other work considering how little attention to detail was paid to the frame rails? Give me your insights O great experts of GRM!

Some additional pictures to show why I really, really want this car to work out. So pretty!

Help!

How available are full pans and sills? Would the owners let you pull the seats and carpet to look at the condition under there? There looks to be a rusty suspension arm-how is the rest of the suspension/attachment points? The interior looks nice, but is it nicely done with stuff that isn't going to need to be replaced if you go full resto?

Edit-that is really pretty btw, I can see why you want it.

It's pretty. Get a grmer to look for you? If it were by me I would as i'm pretty intimately familiar with them

Z prices are crazy. If you have the money - jump in now. All parts are available- that looks like a nice car.

MrJoshua wrote: How available are full pans and sills? Would the owners let you pull the seats and carpet to look at the condition under there? There looks to be a rusty suspension arm-how is the rest of the suspension/attachment points? The interior looks nice, but is it nicely done with stuff that isn't going to need to be replaced if you go full resto? Edit-that is really pretty btw, I can see why you want it.

Pans and outer sills are very available. Inner sills need to be cut from donor cars but are out there.

I noticed that suspension arm too...the rest look to have surface corrosion but nothing significant. I'm very comfortable with suspension/mechanical work so what I see here is of little concern to me. I'm just not a welder and not a body guy - both types of work than can be $$$$ once you're done with them!

patgizz wrote: It's pretty. Get a grmer to look for you? If it were by me I would as i'm pretty intimately familiar with them

Sorry for the double post - but if anyone is in the North Omaha/Norfolk, NE area, that's where this car is.

I don't follow prices on those so I have no idea what market value would be. I think you're correct to be concerned about the workmanship on that based on the looks of the floors. I also don't care for the looks of the rear lower control arms. If you're looking for a decent driver and the car as priced as one then that may be a good car. It looks great from the top and if it runs and drives as good as the owners say it does then you should be able to get a ton of enjoyment out of it. If, on the other hand you're looking for for perfection (or even really good) then you'd probably be money ahead to buy one that hasn't been "restored". To do fix that car to high standards is going to take some time and or money.

I have no idea as to the market for these things but strait away everything you pointed out raises red flags as to the quality of work. I would take the going rate of the car with out the issues and the get some idea as to what it will cost to make it right. And that is based on shop rates not you doing it. I would add in another 30-35% for the unknown and subtract that from the price of the car and start there. Being this is kind of a friends and family deal it can be a bit sticker but if you were to purchase it and then try to sell it that is how people would look at it. Further more if someone is looking for a nice car they will shy away from that car in favor of a "correct" car. That car to me screams fubar and my gut said pass on it.

To me it is a 7k car but again I don't know the market

Looked at hagerty and it falls in to the 16.5k so take that and start subtracting. I think I like my 7k number above as a starting point. I would not go over 10k.

@APEowner Correct, all I'm looking for is a driver. Think something I can take to a cars and coffee on the weekend and occasionally autocross. No track days or similar planned for it. Also happy to continue to work on the car, so it having a few issues doesn't scare more, but I want to make sure I'm getting it at a fair cost.

@dean1484 Thanks for insight into where you'd value it. I'm glad I'm not alone in being concerned and want to bring my concerns to light with the owner. I'm hoping since there's a connection (via my co-worker) that we'll be able to work something reasonable out.

Interested to see if anyone else has other opinions on the subject!

I have no concern with the control arms, that looks like superficial surface rust that will brush off . My floors look better and they were hand formed, that's my concern with this car. For a pretty driver it looks good but I would not pay top dollar for it.

Here is how I see the game.

Any well bought classic car you should be able to drive for five years and get your money back. It is a great gig.

Problem is that car would not qualify as "Well Bought". It is a good example of what to stay away from if you want to play the "Drive the car for free" game.

If I were asked to inspect this car for you the missing sill seam is the first thing that would have set off an alarm. Filled in body seams on a classic car are like the signature of a hack body-shop, not a restoration shop. If they mudded over that seam, there is no telling what they consider a reasonable amount of filler for the rest of the work. You want to take any guesses as to how meticulous they were with the sill work that is covered by all that shiny paint? I mean, floors are easy, sills take some skill that they don't seem to have in their inventory.

The poor workmanship on the floors would be another. The missing frame-rail is the final Gong.

If you are willing to have it decompose in your ownership over the next five to ten years, then go for it as it does seem like the owner cared, just not what I consider an investment/money back car.

Those arms are not in anyway rusty.

I sent this thread over to Osterkraut, who lives in the area.

I do indeed. I know nothing about 240zs other than how much I want one, but I can probably go have a look at it.

Can't drive this one to you, I'm afraid.

NOHOME wrote: Here is how I see the game. Any well bought classic car you should be able to drive for five years and get your money back. It is a great gig. Problem is that car would not qualify as "Well Bought". It is a good example of what to stay away from if you want to play the "Drive the car for free" game. If I were asked to inspect this car for you the missing sill seam is the first thing that would have set off an alarm. Filled in body seams on a classic car are like the signature of a hack body-shop, not a restoration shop. If they mudded over that seam, there is no telling what they consider a reasonable amount of filler for the rest of the work. You want to take any guesses as to how meticulous they were with the sill work that is covered by all that shiny paint? I mean, floors are easy, sills take some skill that they don't seem to have in their inventory. The poor workmanship on the floors would be another. The missing frame-rail is the final Gong. If you are willing to have it decompose in your ownership over the next five to ten years, then go for it as it does seem like the owner cared, just not what I consider an investment/money back car.

This is what i was thinking without the correct way to say it. To me this is purely a driver that will need some work, but i would expect to lose money in the end. Luckily it's a model that is likely appreciating to the moon but bad bodywork is bad bodywork.

I have a chevelle that's similar. It was a nice looking driver, and it was from family so i got it cheap(for a chevelle). Then a few years later some bubbles popped up in the paint. Then some bondo fell out of the fender, now i'm doing full panel replacements on a car that was done to a "good enough for maaco" standard that looked pretty for a while but degraded fast. I'm at the point of going off the deep end of ordering every panel but firewall and floorpan or cutting losses for a clean shell and chalking it up to experience

Thank you all for the insight. I'm quickly forming the opinion that this is a decent car IF (and it's a decent IF) I can get it for the right price. I'm going to have a talk with the current owner about some of these issues today, I'll report back.

The good news is there's zero reason for me to suspect he's actively trying to pull the wool over my eyes. I do honestly think he cared about the car, but I believe he had the work done by one of his friends, and I don't think they were a "restoration" shop so much as your typical collision repair place. Plus, the owner isn't a car guy per-se, but bought this more on a whim and decided to fix it up. I'm not sure he knows the quality (or lack thereof) of the work that was done other than "the body looks great", which it does...on the surface.

Osterkraut wrote: I do indeed. I know nothing about 240zs other than how much I want one, but I can probably go have a look at it.

I'll send you a PM. I'd just like to put local eyes on it if possible!

Keep in mind, that although 240z prices have been rising, only the very best examples will bring top dollar. Datsun made tons of these, and many still survive, so finding a very nice, very correct one is still easy. Also, keep in mind the 70-72 cars are worth more than the 73 models. (this appears to be a 73, but I could be wrong)

Nothing wrong with buying this as a driver, but without quite a bit of work, it won't be worth what the best examples are going for. Keep this in mind when negotiating with the owner. They are great cars, wish I still had mine!