So hopefully I am getting a W123 diesel and I was looking at the Superturbodiesel forum and about the max that you can get out of a OM617 is 140hp before running out of fuel. Getting larger elements is expensive so I am wondering how hard it would be to adapt a injection pump off a different vehicle to the Mercedes diesel. Not saying I am actually wanting to add a bunch of power but I am curious. I know the timing would be an issue but could it be done?
Diesel is all about torque, not hp.
Diesel timing is not like rotating a distributor. It is changing mechanical gearing to alter the fuel injection points.
And no, I don't know the answer to your question.
SVreX wrote: Diesel timing is not like rotating a distributor. It is changing mechanical gearing to alter the fuel injection points.
Which is why I kinda think it is do-able. It is a matter of the getting the right gearing.
Acquire an OM647? 
So, why are you accepting this project, if you already know it's limited to become a major project?
Or can we name you John Brown2?
alfadriver wrote: So, why are you accepting this project, if you already know it's limited to become a major project?
I honestly don't think I will ever do it. I am just planning on dropping a stock OM617 turbo diesel in and doing exhaust and an intercooler and using it as a parts runner and back up DD.
MG Bryan wrote: Acquire an OM647?
I would do a OM606 if I was going to do a crazy engine swap. 
93EXCivic wrote: I would do a LS3 if I was going to do a crazy engine swap.
Ok so did some thinking while running. Would an injector pump have to match the number of injectors? So if it was on a five cylinder engine would it have to be a injector pump for a five cylinder engine?
corytate wrote:93EXCivic wrote: I would do a LS3 if I was going to do a crazy engine swap.
Nah. The OM606 can make serious power like 600+ without too much trouble and I am bored with LS swaps.
Yes your injector pump would have to match the number of cylinders, unless you decide to run a high pressure common rail system, then you just fill a rail with about 40,000 psi and let the injectors fire when and how much they want to.
Some vehicles can have the pump timing adjusted by rotating the pump just like a distributor, others need the pump drive gears (typically not internal to the pump, but in the timing case) to be moved to adjust timing. Vehicles with rotary (round shaped) pumps are more commonly adjusted like distributors, vehicles with inline (brick shaped) pumps are more commonly adjusted by changing the gear timing in the timing case. High pressure common rail vehicles adjust timing through the computer.
To get more fuel out of a pump, you need to move the swash plate (rotary) or rack (inline) further. Once its maxed out, no more fuel unless you swap pump guts or the whole pump. High pressure common rail vehicles are dealing with a fuel system with a fixed volume, so as long as the pump can maintain the required pressure at max flow, you can keep adding flow (duty cycle) from the injectors and/or pressure from the pump till pressure starts to drop off at max load.
HEUI (older Powerstrokes) and unit injectors (Detroit Diesel) run low pressure fuel to the injectors and pressurize and deliver the fuel in the injector. Think of them as one little pump per cylinder. The HEUI system uses electric over high pressure oil to fire the injectors, and Detroits use another cam lobe, similar to a VTEC system. To get more timing and fuel out of a Powerstroke, you can mess with the electronics till you run out of high pressure oil or fuel, then add a higher volume high pressure oil pump or a high volume low pressure fuel pump to get back volume, then add more fuel again. The Detroits need a camshaft change to get more fuel and timing until you run out of the limits the injectors can deliver in one squeeze, then its time for a bigger injector.
Thats about it. Of course, there is a lot more to it than that once you get in it, but thats the overview.
SVreX wrote: Diesel is all about torque, not hp.
Amen brother! My 93 Dodge towed over 11K pounds plenty of time, with about 150 HP. Torque, about 500.
Everything I've read has that generation 5.9 Cummins pegged at 400 pound-feet.
DrBoost just has smaller feet, no big deal...
If you want serious power go with a om606. It's been a year or so since I frequented the superturbodiesel forums, but last time I was around people were just starting to experiment with modifying and swapping injection elements. I think the best option with the om617 is to tune the stock pump as much as possible and swap a variable geometry turbo on. I got my vgt working but got distracted with magic spinning triangles before I got around to messing with the pump.
P7100 pumps from Cummins 4BT and 6BT are 4 and 6 cylinders respectively, and push about 300cc/stroke in stock form. You're gonna need a bigger turbo 
DaveEstey wrote: Everything I've read has that generation 5.9 Cummins pegged at 400 pound-feet.
That was supposed to read 400, not 500. But I think that's wrong, 400 was stock. But, I don't really know the specs or the tunability.
curtis73 wrote: P7100 pumps from Cummins 4BT and 6BT are 4 and 6 cylinders respectively, and push about 300cc/stroke in stock form. You're gonna need a bigger turbo
Are those rotary or inline pumps? Also those insanely expensive?
Inline, reasonably priced.
Just for giggles, I'll leave this here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj34zAbixAQ
curtis73 wrote: Just for giggles, I'll leave this here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj34zAbixAQ
Wow no smoke!
surely they mean 1,280 pound-feet of torque, not horsepower.... Right?
DaveEstey wrote: surely they mean 1,280 pound-feet of torque, not horsepower.... Right?
No 1280hp but I think that was while huffing NOS.
1280 was HP. Torque was easily in excess of 2000 lb ft.
Those kinda numbers are becoming commonplace at diesel dyno days.
This thread made me go look up Mercedes diesels to augment my Unimog dreams.
Then I thought about what all the 'mog drivetrain bits were built to put up with, and I was sad.
Need to hit the MegaMillions so I can devote a year to duplicating all the factory drivetrain and suspension parts on a 416 suitably fortified to deal with real acceleration, towing loads and highway speeds...
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