Hey guys,
I may have the opportunity to get my hands on a 1st gen Dodge Caravan 5-speed that belonged to my wife's uncle for many years until he died this year. If I remember right it wasn't in the best of shape,but also not bad either. Could it be made fun with some forced induction,and sway bars? Any potential? I like the idea of a 5-speed in a minivan a lot.
Chris
mini-van, mega-fun... to lazy to find the picture
Engine and tranny are standard turbo dodge stuff, along with the wheels. There were red konis made for them at one time too, so it wouldnt be too hard to make it a decent vehicle. Plan on swapping the engine if you want it to be a turbo, 89-91 engine stuff is alot more reliable than the older stuff. The newer vans come with new transmissions too, the older ones the shifter isnt that good.
http://www.turbominivan.com/
It's old, but it's got a great explanation of turbos as well.
There was a turbo minivan in the first challenge, $1500 challenge. The A555 trans (that's the one in the turbo minivans) are pretty strong. You could make that thing kick but.
I've long considered this for the 2nd gen Vans. The SRT trans bolts up to the 2.4 found in the base model...and better yet, the SRT motor will fit. This...or an LS1 Astro...would put me in a minivan.
Nathan
My last Chrysler minivan was built, but not a turbo motor. It was a 3.3, with a 3.8 swapped in, ported and polished heads, 2.5" exhaust Koni's, aftermarket sways, lowered 3" in the rear ,2" in the front, limited slip, CAI, 4-wheel discs. It was pretty badazz.
Ive got a 90 5spd caravan. It's one of my favorite vehicles. When mine was non-turbo, it got 27-33 mpg. I swapped in a turbo motor, the same kind that my challenge car trapped 98 mph and put 320 lb ft to the wheels on with less than $500 of motor parts.
Im also swapping in a 3.0 sohc 6g72 mitsu v6. There is a 5spd that bolts to that that's a drop in for my van. Im planning on strapping an m90 to the top of it.
Im also vaguely formulating plans for a dohc 6g72 so i can rev my van to 8000 rpm.
Im also planning on using AWD caravan rear end parts to make it a gas/electric AWD hybrid similar in concept to the challenge Fiero of Bryce Nash.
I can tell you all sorts of stuff about suspension and on and on.. Once you tell me you care! 
But as far as getting good mileage or going fast or travelling in comfort and stealth.. yes, there's no doubt it can do those things. 
Did these things ever come in the turbo 5spd flavor, or where they all slush boxes? If you want the 5spd and turbo, whats the easiest route?
Vigo, spill baby, spill!
I think the Turbo van w/ 5sp is rare as rocking horse poo, if it existed at all.
Easiest way to get there would be just a full motor/trans/wiring/computer swap from a '87+ Daytona/Lebaron/Acclaim/Spirit probably any Shadow/Sundance as well. Should all just bolt in. I think the minivan axles would be the only mini-specific parts...
IRC the MiniMe $1500 Challenge entry used Daytona springs/struts up front for a 3" drop and moved the rear axle over the rear leaf springs for a drop back there....
This sounds like I should pick it up unless it is in wayyyyy worse shape than I remember. I don't know what year it is,but I do know it was an early one,maybe even an 84. I am guessing it is in rough shape,but it may be a fun project to have. I will be asking you questions Vigo.
Chris
They did come factory turbo and 5spd, but it was a rare thing, as factory turbo vans were only made in 89 and 90, only the short wheelbase ones, and the 5spds were a fraction of that. Autos are far more common.
The motor that comes in them has some good things going for it. It comes with strong pistons and rods and with careful tuning can hold 400whp on the stock bottom end. Careful tuning, though, is a rare thing in the turbo-dodge/turbo-mopar world so you wont find many people running that power that havent upgraded to forged pistons. However, i THINK the current fastest 1st gen turbo 4 cylinder caravan that runs 11.7s @~115 is on a stock piston stock bottom end. That guy knows how to tune.
Like i said, the motor in my Dodge Aries $2009 challenge car is actually a factory turbo motor from an 89 turbo caravan with 250+k on the motor. I put new gaskets on it, a large intercooler, and 440cc injectors, turned it up to 17 psi, and made 212whp/320lbft to the wheels. I ran it through a tiny 2.25" exhaust on the dyno so it died early (peak hp @ 4000 rpm?), thus the low hp numbers. I had lots of extra fuel and could probably have hit those numbers with stock injectors at a higher than stock pressure. This was on the stock fuel pump. Its fairly easy to get to 240-250whp if you mix and match the best factory turbo parts to make the optimal stock parts setup. On the high end, multiple people have made 400+whp with the motor. A few have gone past 450whp, but i dont think any have cracked 500whp without another power adder. With nitrous the current highest is right around 600whp. The head is a piece of junk, but with a bunch of effort it can be done. The trannies they come with (from 87-up anyway) are very strong and dont really need any modification to hold a lot of power. The 84s, however, have the early style tranny which is pretty weak. You can pick up a stronger tranny to swap in from the junkyard for fairly cheap. You can buy a torque-biasing differential for the front for a bit under $500.
Of course, there are 2 rare 16v head setups that use the same basic bottom end. One was the Lotus head that came on spirit r/t's. SVreX here has a spirit like that. A few of those motors have gone past 500whp. One has powered a FWD drag car into the low 8s @180.
Of the factory v6 setups, there were the 3.0 mitsu 6g72 and the chryco 3.3/3.8. The 3.0 mitsu can bolt up to a factory 5spd which drops into the van using stock mounts and all that. I have a friend who has built two of those 3.0s to over 500whp, one of them on STOCK 10:1 pistons from a diamante. The 3.3/3.8 are auto only, require you to run an electronically shifted 4spd that needs its own electronics and is hard to mod, and havent really been proven to hold boost. The 3.8 is pretty torquey, though, and i can tell you how to gear the stock 4spd tranny down from a diff ratio of 3.6:1 to about 4.3:1 by mixing and matching factory tranny parts.
The 2.4L motor has been swapped into these vans as well. With an adapter to run the 8valve motor's distributor off the side of the 2.4 head, they can be run on retuned factory electronics. They also bolt to the factory trans/starter and all that so you only need to modify/build 2 mounts to bolt them in.. Of course, stock srt-4/ptgt motor bottom ends have made about 600whp on the hairy edge and more with built motors.
And as i said, im considering using the dohc 6g72 mitsu motor, which has made 1000+whp in built 3000gt's and such, not that i would ever take it that far.
The van has a big engine bay and the factory motor and trannies will hold a pretty good amount of power!
As for suspension, there's not much that's drop in but some ingenuity goes a long way. Koni DID make drop in struts and shocks but they were discontinued a few years back so good luck finding them. Of drop in struts for the front, you can get kyb gr-2s which will only hold a fairly soft spring. Stiffest factory drop in spring in the front is 145 lb/in, but you can actually fit old taurus front springs on the struts. old SHO front springs are ~200 lb/in in the front i believe. You can also modify Impreza struts to work, and for those there are lots of options. Even factory wrx/sti take-offs would be decent. They have AGX for those which are cheap and adjustable. For front sway bars you can grab a big 1 1/4" diameter factory bar from a Shelby Daytona or Spirit R/T or similar and modify it to fit. There is also a source for Polyurethane bushings all around for these vans.
In the back its a solid axle/leaf spring setup, so you dont have a lot of options for changing the spring rates without spending money. They did make an HD set but in racer perspective its probably not very stiff. You can always get a spring shop to make/alter some if you crave rear stiffness. There is a factory rear sway bar that's probably not very stiff from later year vans. Others have modified Cherokee front bars to work, and they actually made some pretty big cherokee front sway bars. As for shocks, Its a conventional looking shock so there are probably a lot of undiscovered interchanges. Other than the aforementioned Koni's you can also buy a 9way adjustable Rancho truck shock and crank it up.
Of course, the things have a huge utility factor. They are comfy to ride in, can fit up to 7 people, have semi-modular rear seating that you can move around or take out. Even the short-wheelbase van is long enough for a 6 foot tall person to lay in the back, so you can literally camp right out of it without pitching a tent. If you dont lower it much, they have a lot of ground clearance and wheel travel so you can take them a lot of places and go down bad roads a lot faster than you could in some 'sporty' cars with no travel left.
In short, i love my van!!
Respect the van.
I've actually driven a 5 speed ,Diesel Chrysler minivan.
I can't help but think of this video I saw YEARS ago of a turbo caravan smoking a 4th gen Z28 on the drag strip. IIRC it was an 11 second car...err..van. A built caravan would be the ultimate sleeper, if you could actually get people to race you!
neon4891 wrote: mini-van, mega-fun... to lazy to find the picture
CLNSC3 wrote: I can't help but think of this video I saw YEARS ago of a turbo caravan smoking a 4th gen Z28 on the drag strip. IIRC it was an 11 second car...err..van. A built caravan would be the ultimate sleeper, if you could actually get people to race you!
This one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ecgFbDop3Q
I want to say that was Gus Mahon(RIP), but it's been too long.
(man that music sucks)
vigo = my hero! that was an enormous brain-dump, and has me looking at craigslist for more cars i don't need....
AngryCorvair wrote: vigo = my hero! that was an enormous brain-dump, and has me looking at craigslist for more cars i don't need....
Exactly! Now in addition to my usual searches I have to add "Turbo Van" to them. My wife hates GRM.
We used a turbo 5-speed minivan to tow our turbo Shadow ChumpCar racer to the track. My family's turbo minivan was one of the other support vehicles in attendance. Proved lucky when we needed to borrow parts to keep the car running, heh.
Used to know a guy who had an early 5-speed van that he used to tow his X-1/9 to the track, he lowered it by using Daytona/Lebaron front struts (about 3" drop) and then built adapter plates for the rear hubs to lower it the same without losing suspension travel.
Always wanted to build one up to play with, but they are just too useful as mules to try and make them into stallions.
The only real drawback is the steering rack is fairly slow and I don't think you can easily swap in a rack from another K-based car.
might be a dumb question but which trans would be better for drag racing? I will recheck Vigo's post in case I missed it.
Honestly? An A413 3-speed automatic (torque converter + turbo = lots of boost off the line) The differential is a weak link on most of the automatic and 5-speed transmissions so a Quaiffe or an OBX knock-off is a great idea since they'll reduce the chances of a one-wheel peel causing a diff pin to go shooting through the case.
Case in point:
http://www.turbominivan.com/members/terry/
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/TURBO-DODGE-CARAVAN-TERRY_201510.htm
The autos will be easier to race with, but take ALL of the fuel mileage away, and part of the daily-driving fun, too.
Also, other than the differential pins flying out due to one-wheel-peels, the later diffs generally do not fail. Axles snap before diffs do, and for the pins you can just buy cheap retainers for $10 a diff.
As far as i know, you can swap car steering racks into the vans, but i have not personally checked. I do know that ive recently collected 3 of the 14.5:1 fast/sport racks and am putting them in 3 of my cars. I've never felt the need for faster steering in the van, but ive never autocrossed it. I DO feel the need in the cars which probably have the same ratio, so i guess it all depends on how you use it.
I have not done much with my van lately but my good friend Mason is in the process of building up a turbo/auto 89 van he got from me, with something new every few weeks: http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43834
Vigo, I was told by the guy who built the 11-second van that they the mounting points are different on the K-frame. Wouldn't surprise me, but then I've not verified it myself either.
Looks like next time I'm at the salvage yard, I'll have to poke around.
I did scavenge the 5-speed conversion parts from a Caravan CV for our ES Turbo, but its just a parts hauler at this point and we just don't care that much.
In reply to CLNSC3:
If that was at NED it was Gussie. RIP.
I tell that same story all the time actually. I was there with my SHO and was chatting with him. He politely excused himself as two 4th gen Z28s rolled in. He walked over and asked if either wanted to race (one had a huge vortech decal on the windshield and sounded like a whistling party favor...) The guy was incredulous that someone in a plain silver Plymouth Acclaim with an auto on the column wanted to race his Z.
That Acclaim was running 28psi at the time (1997) and mid to low 12's on slicks. The mini van ran low 13s on street tires and 12.8s with the slicks.
You are missed Gus.
RJ
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