1987 16v Scirocco. Currently has PS. Setting car up for track days and possible low cost endurance racing. Never had PS in any of my Dubs before that I tracked or autocrossed. Want to take the PS out. Thoughts?
1 less weight
2 less complexity
3 less drag on engine
4 greater reliability
5 less potential leaks
I haven't run power steering on my rx7 race car for 7 years. Love it. Would not go back.
Even in a 24 hour race with only 4 drivers we were all fine.
wvumtnbkr said:I haven't run power steering on my rx7 race car for 7 years. Love it. Would not go back.
Even in a 24 hour race with only 4 drivers we were all fine.
That's the sort of response I was looking for.
Patrick, your's too.
Depending on how much the water pump leaks on my LT1, I don't have power steering on my DD either. It's like "surprise, you're suddenly headed for that tree."
I actually kind of enjoy not having PS once I'm moving.
It depends. If you're running wide, sticky tires you can end up needing a pretty slow steering rack to keep the effort reasonable. And if you're in a chassis that likes lots of caster, no power steering can be limiting (by limiting how much caster you can tolerate in terms of steering effort). But those are usually more of an issue for autocross than on a track.
VW power steering is an afterthought and not very good. I think they positioned the pump to protect the oil pan from debris, and the hoses to maximize inconvenience for any maintenance and repair.
I have no idea if VW PS of that vintage can be made track reliable or not, but if it can then I'd keep it.
Power steering reduces driver fatigue, which is a useful thing when doing 90-120 minute stints in endurance racing both from a lap time and not-crashing perspective.
I also think you'd be better off keeping it on a FWD car that could be running wide sticky tires, especially for reducing driver fatigue in endurance racing. Maybe get another rack and properly depower it to test with before you do anything permanent.
Better steering feedback without it, and less power loss and less underhood heat to deal with.
The driver can always get stronger, and adding 10# of core chest and arm muscle is likely to have a good effect on overall fitness.
Going to autocross it? Keep it!
Otherwise, meh
Knurled. said:VW power steering is an afterthought and not very good. I think they positioned the pump to protect the oil pan from debris, and the hoses to maximize inconvenience for any maintenance and repair.
TRUTH
I would say anything that's 3000-3200 lbs or less I'd do no power steering. In an 87 scirocco it wouldn't even be a second thought.
I have PS in my 2400 lb rally/track car, and I'm no weakling. There's no benefit to having to work harder.
vwcorvette said:1987 16v Scirocco. Currently has PS. Setting car up for track days and possible low cost endurance racing. Never had PS in any of my Dubs before that I tracked or autocrossed. Want to take the PS out. Thoughts?
1 less weight
2 less complexity
3 less drag on engine
4 greater reliability
The go to is to depower it and leave it in place; did the same on my mkii GTI.
Personally, I'd keep it. I firmly believe that the "increased driver feel" argument is a myth. More effort does not equal better feel. Steering feel is influenced by a bunch of contributing factors. If you're steering doesn't have a communicative feel to it with power steering then it's not going to get better without! The same thing basically holds true for power brakes.
freetors said:Personally, I'd keep it. I firmly believe that the "increased driver feel" argument is a myth. More effort does not equal better feel. Steering feel is influenced by a bunch of contributing factors. If you're steering doesn't have a communicative feel to it with power steering then it's not going to get better without! The same thing basically holds true for power brakes.
Actually, it should have better feel. If you depower it correctly, you eliminate the spare motion of the valve at the rack. This should make for slightly better feel. It has a bit of slop that gets welded together.
Dirt track racers have power steering.
iceracer said:Dirt track racers have power steering.
So do WRC cars, F1 cars and Le Mans cars. Heck, the latter have AC.
Thanks for all the input. I have a used good manual rack coming but may hold off and see how we like the PS set up. My codriver likes the idea of PS. But he's coming from Formula Vee and has incredible arm strength.
Keith Tanner said:iceracer said:Dirt track racers have power steering.
So do WRC cars, F1 cars and Le Mans cars. Heck, the latter have AC.
So does NASCAR. Apparently IndyCar doesn't, but only because the rules don't allow it.
It isn't just a case of "man up". Regardless of how much upper body strength the driver has, power steering means less fatigue at the end of a long race, and that's a competitive advantage that's worth the relatively minor weight penalty.
vwcorvette said:Thanks for all the input. I have a used good manual rack coming but may hold off and see how we like the PS set up. My codriver likes the idea of PS. But he's coming from Formula Vee and has incredible arm strength.
Keith Tanner said:I have PS in my 2400 lb rally/track car, and I'm no weakling. There's no benefit to having to work harder.
Even if it meant better feel?
Id opt out of PS for rwd, not knowledgeable enough to advise on fwd however.
In reply to ebonyandivory :
Better feel is good, but if not having PS meant I needed a slower ratio or couldn't physically turn the wheel as fast in some situations, the reduced driver performance of not having it might out-weigh the better feel and lighter weight, etc.
As an extreme example, with a ratio fast enough to have about 3 turns lock to lock and decent size tires to turn, my Jeep is a case where power steering is critical. Loss of PS is a tow truck ride home, as anyone short of the hulk can't turn the wheel fast enough to drive the thing safely (even on the street), especially not at lower speeds. It would be possible to make it driveable without PS, but you'd end up needing a lot less caster, narrower tires and a much slower steering box that would probably put you at 4+ turns lock to lock. At that point, you'd be worse off than just using PS.
ebonyandivory said:Keith Tanner said:I have PS in my 2400 lb rally/track car, and I'm no weakling. There's no benefit to having to work harder.
Even if it meant better feel?
Id opt out of PS for rwd, not knowledgeable enough to advise on fwd however.
Many people confuse weight for feel.
I’ve driven Miatas with manual racks, power racks and depowered racks. I chose the power rack for my car.
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