All Scions are undermotored, but that doesn't stop other people from adding horses.
All Scions are undermotored, but that doesn't stop other people from adding horses.
The Subaru STi version should come out exactly when I am in the market for a new car. Thanks for making me walk past it on my way to the used Minivans!
Interesting article from The Truth About Cars, especially the commentary from Akio Toyoda
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/11/finally-ttac-gets-its-hands-on-the-ft86-and-its-chief-engineer/#more-420117
Oddly enough, this sentence endeared the BRZ to me: "Tellingly, the BRZ was developed on 16- and 17-inch wheels, defying the fashionable trend toward factory-fitted dubs rimmed with rubber-band-thin tires."
Thank you, finally. I don't need or want 18" wheels unless my rotors are the size of a large pizza
It's handsome (particularly in some of the other photos), light weight, RWD, and (potentially) relatively inexpensive. Color me impressed. This is the first Toyota in more than a decade to get my attention.
I was SO happy to read Toyoda saying this:
There is a Toyota standard for designing new cars. This standard was to a large extent ignored. Why did we do this? There are cars that are accepted by a lot of people. Practical cars that are easy to drive and that do not break easily. These are standard Toyota cars. The 86 is not a car like that. We had to change our design approach for this car. We may have to do this again for other cars. It is impossible to develop a sports car that appeals to everybody. If you try to please everybody, the car would be half-baked for everybody, and not particularly good for anybody. This car is not developed by a committee, or by consensus.
EdenPrime wrote: I was SO happy to read Toyoda saying this: There is a Toyota standard for designing new cars. This standard was to a large extent ignored. Why did we do this? There are cars that are accepted by a lot of people. Practical cars that are easy to drive and that do not break easily. These are standard Toyota cars. The 86 is not a car like that. We had to change our design approach for this car. We may have to do this again for other cars. It is impossible to develop a sports car that appeals to everybody. If you try to please everybody, the car would be half-baked for everybody, and not particularly good for anybody. This car is not developed by a committee, or by consensus.
That's pretty awesome. Downright revolutionary for Toyota circa 2011/2012.
If it comes to the States at 2600lbs (and not 2800), that'll be pretty damn good. The stock wheel/tire spec is WAY too small/skinny, but let's assume that a ton of people are going to upgrade that in the 2nd week of ownership.
It'll be interesting to see the tastefully tuned versions start popping up.
EdenPrime wrote: I was SO happy to read Toyoda saying this: There is a Toyota standard for designing new cars. This standard was to a large extent ignored. Why did we do this? There are cars that are accepted by a lot of people. Practical cars that are easy to drive and that do not break easily. These are standard Toyota cars. The 86 is not a car like that. We had to change our design approach for this car. We may have to do this again for other cars. It is impossible to develop a sports car that appeals to everybody. If you try to please everybody, the car would be half-baked for everybody, and not particularly good for anybody. This car is not developed by a committee, or by consensus.
Yes this keeps getting better and better. This could be one of the best all new cars in years........the Miata of coupes.
I hope they sell a bazillion, and the rest of the auto world sits up and takes notice - THIS IS THE KIND OF CAR THAT CAR PEOPLE WANT!
Now you guys just have to actually but new ones, so they continue to design cars like this.
4cylndrfury wrote: I hope they sell a bazillion, and the rest of the auto world sits up and takes notice - THIS IS THE KIND OF CAR THAT CAR PEOPLE WANT!
No, this is the kind of car WE want.
The kind of car -most- people want is out there already.
The ones that you can talk on your phone, read the paper and have your latte while all the driver nannying crap makes sure you will be fine.
Car that park themselves, c'mon, really?
After reading about the design philosophy in that Truth About Cars article, I'm finally really excited about this car. It seems like Toyota has really listened to what enthusiasts want, not what the "other 95%" want (they already have their cars on the market).
However, this scares me:
How much will this car cost? This remains a state secret. All Toyota says is that it will be “affordably priced.” Asked what that means, Tada launches into a dangerous discourse, with his press handlers getting visibly nervous:
30 to 40 years ago, there was an AE86, and the price of this car was 1.5 million yen. At the time, that was the starting salary was for a university graduate. We kept that in mind when we priced the car. In the meantime, there has been a rise in prices, and the starting salaries rose also.
The starting salary of a university graduate in Japan is around 2.5 million yen. In today’s undervalued dollars, this would be around $32,000. We will have to wait until early 2012 when the car is officially released. There will be no pricing announcement at the Auto Show.
I'm an engineer that's 10+ years out of school, and I can't justify spending that kind of dough on a toy (or even a daily driver, truth be told). I would actually consider purchasing this car new if it were in the 20's (or if I were in my 20's). Sigh, I guess I'll have to wait for them to hit the used market -- at which point a $25k Lotus Elise starts looking awfully attractive.
I think this car is a step in the right direction, but I just spent $21k on a Corvette Z06 with 45k miles. If I had to get a new car (and car payment), however, this would have a hard time against it's competition. I'm limiting competition to "sporty" rwd cars.
At $25k? It's right between a V6 Mustang and a Mustang GT. There's a base Mustang GT near me for $28k after discounts and whatnot. There are also V6 Mustangs in the low $20k range. Similar price, more room (if you care about that), similar mpg (seriously, you can't afford a new car if you're going to sweat a few mpgs), and a whole lot more power. The Mustangs probably handle just as well. The MX-5, convertible, and Genesis, turbo, are also in this range. The Toybaru has neither.
If it's in the $30k range? Well, then it is up against the 1/3 series BMW, Mustang GT Premium, 370z, etc.
Simply put, the car won't be competitive unless it's in the low $20k range. Hopefully it can slide in there, because I don't think that "Scion/Toyota/Subaru brand strength" will be much of a factor within this market segment.
I've heard comments about them wanting to make it the most affordable rwd coupe on the market. Assuming they do it by $5-10 like every manufacturer pulling that stunt, the car will be low 20's. Likely around $22k.
A Miata in Canada is 40k to put in the driveway. I have a feeling that this will be in the same ballpark.
This car is arriving at a point in history where people are finally starting to differentiate between WANTS and NEEDS. Toys are not selling in todays market and funds are not being borrowed to finance WANTS.
That said I sure WANT one. However, the disposable cash for new cars tops out at 30k and I doubt it will be anywhere near that.
$22k excites me $32k scares me
Christ that wheel/tire combo looks skinny from the factory. I guess the plus side here is that a 17x9/255 or 265 combo will fit pretty easily.
Well if it will cost the same as the AE86 then we can adjust the price of the original car for ~25 years of inflation.
Found this on the googles: http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=73140
Based on the pic thats in that thread, the base price for a 1985 GTS is $8,538. The model the mag tested had A/C, sunroof, AM/FM/Cassette, P/S, cruise control, and a rear wiper which now makes the MSRP $11,483.
More googling leads to an inflation calculator from the BLS which says that $8,538 in 1985=$17,966 in 2011 and $11,483=$24,163.
Of course this is a bit simplified and doesn't factor in the value of the yen against the dollar but heres to wishful thinking that it'll be priced this way.
carguy123 wrote: All Scions are undermotored, but that doesn't stop other people from adding horses.
Really? I think rather the opposite. The 1.5L the xA and xB originally came with was a much better match for those cars than the 2.4L they went to in the 2nd gen xB, and the a tC with a 2ZZ would've been much more attractive for a sporty-commuter Celica replacement.
Do you consider the Miata undermotored? I mean, yes, I'd love to see one with the 3.7L V6 from the CX-9 (and I believe is the same as the 3.7L in the Mustang), but I don't think the 2.0L is grossly underpowered by any means.
I think it's fair to say there's a reasonable facet of the population that considers the Miata undermotored 
I view this as sitting in the same part of the market as the original RX7 and the 240SX. The AE86 wasn't really a sports car, it was a Corolla. Sure, the GTS version was the fun variant, but it was never a standalone sports coupe in the same way the RX7 and 240SX were. It's an underserved part of the market right now, maybe the Toyobaru will meet a lot of needs. Toyoda sure knows how to talk the talk, that's for sure.
I've had little interest in this car until I read the TTAC article. More interested now.
The CEO of Honda needs to forward this article to his bean-counters... Somebody needs to spray-paint it on the wall at BMW... mainly the part about computers...
Trans_Maro wrote:4cylndrfury wrote: I hope they sell a bazillion, and the rest of the auto world sits up and takes notice - THIS IS THE KIND OF CAR THAT CAR PEOPLE WANT!No, this is the kind of car WE want. The kind of car -most- people want is out there already. The ones that you can talk on your phone, read the paper and have your latte while all the driver nannying crap makes sure you will be fine. Car that park themselves, c'mon, really?
Exactly...re-read my comment - the kind of car that CAR people want...thats us...
In reply to SlickDizzy:
I really hope its not actually 101 inches wide 
Seriously, though, I could see replacing the Miata with this thing if the price is right, and the trade in value is high enough. A bit more cargo space, and a car I'd be willing to drive year-round might trump having a convertible top.
The sooner it hits dealers the sooner it turns up used.
I wonder what the MPGs will be?
Hey, did it get better looking? I like it now. Has the right vibe. Doesn't look like it's trying too hard.
Shoot, I want it.
calteg wrote: Oddly enough, this sentence endeared the BRZ to me: "Tellingly, the BRZ was developed on 16- and 17-inch wheels, defying the fashionable trend toward factory-fitted dubs rimmed with rubber-band-thin tires." Thank you, finally. I don't need or want 18" wheels unless my rotors are the size of a large pizza
Completely agreed. The trend toward giant-sized wheels is a pet peeve of mine. Still, "developed on" and "sold with" are two different things. I've got my fingers crossed that the 86 will be all that we've hoped, but until I see the car on dealer lots and genuine US-spec numbers, I refuse to drink the kool-aid.
If and when the whole story is out and the car is everything (or even most of) what we were promised, I'll sign on for fanboy status and sing its praises.
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