Progressive snapshot device....can it be use for fun?

Full disclosure: my wife owns an independant insurance shop, but she autocrosses and helped drop the fuel tank on the Suburban to replace the fuel pump, so that makes her one of us.

As to the privacy aspect, that's a subject of personal feeling. All I'll say is from the glimpse that I got from my MBA marketing class, unless you pay cash, stay off the grid and shop in Mom and Pop's with no cameras, there's a lot of info that you make available (some personal that leads to your credit score, other that is anonymous but part of shopper habits). I just don't worry about it, but that's just me.

We have Progressive, and recently accepted Snapshot. I read the terms carefully that came with it. It monitors hard braking - defined as bleeding 7 MPH per second. And it will beep when you do it so that you know and can adjust. It says that it measures G loading in some cases - no more definition than that - and determines speed by time and distance. No GPS so it can't tell where you are doing 65 MPH, but it would notice if you went for a 110 MPH spurt. As was mentioned, plug it in for six months and send it back and they adjust the rate.

Think about it, insurance is really just a gamble. The companies are trying to balance rate with risk. Hard acceleration on the street is infrequent and not terribly risky. Even pulling max-G is a short event relative to straight sections, unless you're at Deal's Gap. The riskiest street behavior is hard braking (following too close in heavy traffic), because one of those times you'll miss. So rather than log a load of data, it would make sense for them to check your braking pattern.

On one car where I think that (hmm, let's see, six max brake events times six laps times two drivers = 72 brake events one weekend day every month) - nope, that car doesn't get Snapshot, I'll take my standard rate thank-you-very-much. But on the Suburban, which is only driven 4000 miles per year, and never at the limits, she figures this will cut the premium 30% on that car once we "prove" how little it's driven.

If I were younger and still hooned more often, then it's not the right product. But in the right application, it has its place.

As a data logger, interesting idea but the terms also mention that it's their property, they fine you if you don't return, etc. I've got to believe that the minimal data it collects is encrypted and not useful compared to other OBD readers.

it might not have a GPS, but you say it does have accelerometers so it could be used to store data about where you are going and how fast you are getting there.. and this is only the "first gen" of this thing- certainly more and more features and capabilities would be added in future iterations.

just more Big Brother crap on top of all the other Big Brother crap we have in our lives right not... and Progressive is an evil, evil company that screwed me over big time 10 years ago so i will never, ever trust anything they say or do. also, their name is "Progressive" for a reason...

When I first saw the Progressive 'snapshot' ad, all I could think of was the guy in Fla a few years ago who claimed a fatal accident happened at 30 MPH? could be wrong and the airbag data from his Firbird showed ~70 MPH in a residential neighborhood. I can just see me doing 78 or so on the I, then an accident happens due to someone else's stupidity and I get roasted because I was doing 78 MPH. Nope, not gonna happen. And I have Progressive for my bike.

They (like their competitors) are preparing to handle the flood of available data that's now generated by our daily lives, and freely available on the internet. Thanks to Big Data technology (look up 'Hadoop'), it's become both possible and cost effective to collect every piece of data for every person in the world, and keep it forever.

Right now, there are no safeguards or limits to protect you.

Remember, once it's on the 'net, it's there forever, and you can't take it back.

(including this warning)

Not being an alarmist, just sayin' that you should be careful what information you decide to voluntarily give away.

i think it would just be easier for Progressive to make an app that you can download on your phone than to get people to bet this "snapshot" thing.. they would say that the app is for making payments and looking at your policy and what not, but it could very easily be made to access the GPS data on the phone to tell where you are and how fast you are going. couple that with new cars that come with Bluetooth integrated into the car, and they'd be able to access the OBD2 setup very easily.. they would, of course, lay this all out in the terms of use, but since no one reads them, it would be very easy to fool millions of people into letting them track you in real time..

if i thought of it, then you just know that they've thought of it and maybe even already do it..

Sigh...I love all the dog pile on the big bad insurance company. Lots of conspiracy theory, out to get me distrust. As many of you know, I work for an insurance company, so I feel I've got a pretty good understanding of how it all works. And no, I'm not brainwashed...

Progressive's Snapshot program is bold in that I'm sure they knew it would be met with a lot of skeptics, as witnessed here. But remember, it's voluntary, not mandatory. If you don't want anyone to know your driving habits, then there are hundreds of other companies and programs to choose from. It's data logging, plain and simple. Agree or not, the statistics show certain driving behaviors lead to more accidents, certain ones lead to less. Having worked tens of thousands of auto claims, I can see them easily. Progressive is trying to use more accurate data to rate risks. Low risk = lower rates. Only makes sense. If they're only charging $1500 a year for premium, why would they want to insure someone who has a high risk of causing an accident that would cost them $10k or $50k? Doesn't make much business sense to me.

I don't work for Progressive so I don't know if they share the info, but I'd guess they don't. They may be prohibited from sharing it, and they probably consider it proprietary info anyway.

No doubt most of you will disagree, and that's cool. But I don't think the program is intended as "Big Brother". Do insurance companies want to make a profit? Sure, I do like to put food on the table for my family. But it's a cut throat competitive business which means slim profit margins at best...plus regulations by the government which would make your heads spin. At the end of the day, you don't have to like or use Progressive's Snapshot. But that's the beauty of it...it's a choice.

but you DO HAVE to use insurance. which one and how you you use it is still a choice (for now) but the fed already requires it on everything you operate off of your own property. thats the first step, this is the second. once it is determined that this device "causes safer driving', it will progress to the next level, mandates. first states then fed, but mark my words, this thing is another banana peel on the slippery slope away from true freedom.

-J0N

I bought a Garmin EcoRoute HD and use the Garmin Mechanic Android App. Not a cheap option, but I like it.

jmthunderbirdturbo wrote: but you DO HAVE to use insurance. which one and how you you use it is still a choice (for now) but the fed already requires it on everything you operate off of your own property. thats the first step, this is the second. once it is determined that this device "causes safer driving', it will progress to the next level, mandates. first states then fed, but mark my words, this thing is another banana peel on the slippery slope away from true freedom. -J0N

eggzachary... it's one of those "slippery slope" things that starts off with seemingly good intentions then gets turned into something far more sinister.. just base my rates on my almost 22 years of driving with one speeding ticket and no accidents and call it good. there is no need to use electronic devices to track me to see where i go or how fast i get there, because that's all irrelevant given my actual proven historical record behind the wheel.

Geico has a history of dropping people like crazy. Here's the problem with that (at least in SC): there's what is called a 'high risk pool' that people get lumped into if they have a DUI, reckless driving, or if you get dropped by your current insurer. So if you get dropped by an insurer, then the next one you apply to will jack up your rates regardless of the reason for being dropped.

Saw this first hand; a service manager I worked for had three accidents in his family, NONE of which were their faults. Wife got hit from behind, son got sideswiped by a truck, daughter got T boned by someone who ran a stop sign. He'd been with Geico for 15 years, they dropped him for 'excess activity on the account'. He had a helluva time getting reinsured and his rates jumped about 25%. He was lucky; normally if you land in the SR22 pool your rates can climb out of SIGHT.

Klayfish wrote: Agree or not, the statistics show certain driving behaviors lead to more accidents, certain ones lead to less.

I'm going on 30 years with a drivers license and never been cited for an accident. There's all the data they need.

jmthunderbirdturbo wrote: but you DO HAVE to use insurance. which one and how you you use it is still a choice (for now) but the fed already requires it on everything you operate off of your own property. thats the first step, this is the second. once it is determined that this device "causes safer driving', it will progress to the next level, mandates. first states then fed, but mark my words, this thing is another banana peel on the slippery slope away from true freedom. -J0N

-belteshazzar

jmthunderbirdturbo wrote: but you DO HAVE to use insurance. which one and how you you use it is still a choice (for now) but the fed already requires it on everything you operate off of your own property. thats the first step, this is the second. once it is determined that this device "causes safer driving', it will progress to the next level, mandates. first states then fed, but mark my words, this thing is another banana peel on the slippery slope away from true freedom. -J0N

The mandate of having to use insurance, and how much you have to carry, is all driven by the state you live in. Some states only require you to have a little insurance, some require you to have a lot. Progressive likes to pioneer things, doing things other insurance companies haven't. If this is a success for them, I'm sure a lot of others will offer it. I highly doubt that it will become mandatory though...unless the government requires it...that I can't predict.

fast_eddie_72 wrote: I'm going on 30 years with a drivers license and never been cited for an accident. There's all the data they need.

Remember, your rates are part of a much larger pool. Yes, your history is a huge factor, but it's not the only one. A lot of your premium is paying for others who have a lot of accidents.

jmthunderbirdturbo wrote: but you DO HAVE to use insurance. which one and how you you use it is still a choice (for now) but the fed already requires it on everything you operate off of your own property. thats the first step, this is the second. once it is determined that this device "causes safer driving', it will progress to the next level, mandates. first states then fed, but mark my words, this thing is another banana peel on the slippery slope away from true freedom. -J0N

Insurance mandates are sadly a necessity because we have a lot of people that refuse to become responsible adults.

Most of us are in a small minority of people who can drive safely without some electronic snitch watching us, there are many more who can't. With any luck some of the masses will pick one of these gizmos up to save a few bucks and maybe realize that if they change their driving habits a bit to lower their rates that they also become a bit safe and the rest of us won't have to worry about them hitting us because they weren't paying attention or driving poorly. If they don't become better drivers then atleast Progressive can squeeze a couple more bucks out of them to cover the accident they will almost inevitably have.

Klayfish wrote: Remember, your rates are part of a much larger pool. Yes, your history is a huge factor, but it's not the only one. A lot of your premium is paying for others who have a lot of accidents.

To expand on this thought, the rates are the insurance company playing the odds of the accident rates when and where you drive. For example, my wife sells a lot of specialty policies for semi-mundane cars. If you have a pleasure car (let's define that as garaged and not driven to work) then the chance of that car being in an accident - since it won't be in rush hour - goes way down, and the rate to insure it drops dramatically.

I wasn't dogpiling on insurance (I'm on a Big Data project for one of the majors myself). My point was, to carefully consider what you volunteer to anyone today. Actuarial science is a very powerful tool. But Twain's remark about 'liars, damned liars, and statistics' applies. It's possible to manipulate the data and transformations, to create a result that supports nearly any agenda.

In reply to Tom_Spangler:

I'll pay less through Erie and avoid all of that crap........I'm almost $300/yr cheaper than what progressive could do.

I've thought about using the snapshot to scare the piss out of them......hit every autox, road course, and dragstrip I could in the month.