So having read thru the whole 911 engine head rebuild I am wondering about an accounting. How much for parts, outside labor and incidentals. I would really like to drink the 911 koolaid, and need some hard numbers to keep me firmly in the Miata camp. I mean you guys did a very good job of not gold-plating the engine, in line with what most of us could afford.
911's ain't cheap. My buddy rebuilt his early 80's 911 engine and I know it was very expensive. That's why I much prefer any foreign car that has a domestic derived V8 like my TR8 or my old Sunbeam Tiger. I'll have to ask him what the total bill was. I even tried to talk him into doing a V8 engine swap into the 911 but he's too much of a purist.
A good 911 rebuild usually runs around 6K. Done at home it can be cheaper.
Maroon92 wrote: A good 911 rebuild usually runs around 6K. Done at home it can be cheaper.
That's about in line with ours--we were a bit lower, now that I think about it. The heads ate up a good portion of the budget, too: guides, valves, springs and then labor.
The magazine article will discuss pricing as well as what was and what was not needed. The "while you're in there" items added to our parts cost, but not really our labor since everything was already apart.
On a related note, I just wrote up some more web updates for you guys. We'll add those to the ones in the queue.
And for those playing at home, some of the big expenses:
About $1800 for the heads, and that includes parts, labor and cleaning. (For comparison, Flyin' Miata gets $1295 for a built Miata head.) That $1800 also includes resurfacing our flywheel.
Gaskets, chain ramps, O-rings, a new oxygen sensor and a bunch of little stuff cost another $500. This is really the minimum stuff needed to put the engine back together. Maybe we didn't need to replace the oxygen sensor, so that could have saved a few bucks from the total.
Another $750 or so for parts that maybe weren't needed but we wanted to upgrade/replace while we had things apart: intake boot, oil return tubes, updated oil supply lines, etc. That bill also includes the rear main seal installation tool (about $130).
Our Spec clutch has an MSRP of about $510.
The ARP studs go for about $590. In theory, I guess we could have said a prayer and just replaced the one. We decided to replace all of them with top shelf pieces.
Should be a neat magazine series. I hope you guys enjoy it.
I can't wait to hear your opinion of the Spec clutch. That's a bit of a bargain.
Woody wrote: I can't wait to hear your opinion of the Spec clutch. That's a bit of a bargain.
So far, so good. We went with the Stage 1.
You know, that's really not that crazy.
It seems like there were quite a few "oh, and then this needs doing" posts, and I'd started to assume it had gone astronomical.
The "while you're in theres" really added more time than money to the process. Bead-blasting everything didn't cost anything to do, for example, but it ate up a bunch of time.
that budget recap is not helping my desparate want for a 911.
Note that if you need pistons and cylinders, then it gets a bit more expensive. Although my 140,000-mile parts still looked great. Thank you, Mahle.
yea.. while I have the engine out of my saab for the trans.. I am considering re-ringing, bearings, and seals..
the "while I am here" stuff is what kills you.. both in money and time.. but it is nice not to have to worry about it later. And I certainly do not want to pull the engine in my saab ever again
David S. Wallens wrote: Note that if you need pistons and cylinders, then it gets a bit more expensive. Although my 140,000-mile parts still looked great. Thank you, Mahle.
I think David hit on an important point with air-cooled 911s. Porsche did not cut corners with these cars; they spec'ed some high-quality expensive parts. You can look at that in one of two ways: either they're spendy to replace because they're high quality, or they're high quality so you don't have to replace them often. I tend to lean toward the second view. Those expensive parts also make you go fast. Cheap parts make you go slow AND break more often.
David
Well I've been surprised at how much it costs to rebuild a Miata eng. Seems like a well done engine is going to cost $4-5 K. Incidentals are cheap, I mean I got 4 rotors, XP10 front and AX6 rear pads for the miata for $400, but then again the Dirty 911 got brake pads for $18 as well. So being that old 911 are still kind of DIY it might not be unreasonable to own one. The stuff David S did was all things we would do to a car we were going to keep. Unlike the Dirty 911 where his goal was to flip it, tho that sounds like it might be changing. Flip it means just get it running and safe, vs driving yourself.
I know three in range, but I got to say that so many 911's in the 80s are going for over $20K now it's kind of disheartening. Still I have a line on a 77 targa with needs, on 200K mi, clean but needs. A 77 super low miles that was not out of range yet. Both with the dreaded 2.7 but in the NW where they might be doing OK. Been pestering a friend about his 87 to see if he wants to sell.
redstack wrote: Well I've been surprised at how much it costs to rebuild a Miata eng. Seems like a well done engine is going to cost $4-5 K. Incidentals are cheap, I mean I got 4 rotors, XP10 front and AX6 rear pads for the miata for $400, but then again the Dirty 911 got brake pads for $18 as well. So being that old 911 are still kind of DIY it might not be unreasonable to own one. The stuff David S did was all things we would do to a car we were going to keep. Unlike the Dirty 911 where his goal was to flip it, tho that sounds like it might be changing. Flip it means just get it running and safe, vs driving yourself. I know three in range, but I got to say that so many 911's in the 80s are going for over $20K now it's kind of disheartening. Still I have a line on a 77 targa with needs, on 200K mi, clean but needs. A 77 super low miles that was not out of range yet. Both with the dreaded 2.7 but in the NW where they might be doing OK. Been pestering a friend about his 87 to see if he wants to sell.
yank the 2.7 and sell it to somebody who wants/needs it and drop a 3.0 or 3.2 in...
Nobody wants or needs a 2.7, unless it's a genuine RS.
And, it's not.
that is very true. My old 72 had the 2.4 The guy who bought it from me, yanked the wounded engine and dropped a 3.0 in it.
maybe the 2.7 would make a great coffeetable?
One of the problems with the 2.7 is that even if you go through the trouble and expense of building it correctly, everyone is afraid of them and you'll never get your money back.
I agree the 2.7 is the black sheep of the 911 world.
With that said, if anyone knows of a 2.7 for very cheap or free let me know. I want one just to teardown and look at. Seeing it done in books and on the web is one thing, I want to get my hands on one and get the experience should my 3.2 ever need it.
Woody wrote: One of the problems with the 2.7 is that even if you go through the trouble and expense of building it correctly, everyone is afraid of them and you'll never get your money back.
I understand them to be fine if the chains/tensoner/follower thing-a-mabobbers were updated. Is that an incorrect assumption?
The deal with the 2.7 is that they kept enlarging the displacement of the engine to the point where the magnesium case could no longer handle it. Broken head studs were common at low mileage, due to the different metals expanding and contracting at different rates. Occasionally, the studs would just pull out of the case and then you needed to repair the case with time-serts or something similar.
SCs and later cars use aluminum cases, as did the Carrera 3.0, but they weren't officially imported here, though there are a few around, including a couple owned by GRMers.
3.0 SCs with front end damage make great donors for 2.7 cars.
octavious wrote: I agree the 2.7 is the black sheep of the 911 world. With that said, if anyone knows of a 2.7 for very cheap or free let me know. I want one just to teardown and look at. Seeing it done in books and on the web is one thing, I want to get my hands on one and get the experience should my 3.2 ever need it.
I've been looking for the same thing. I think that's a brilliant idea.
A lot of 2.7s ended up in 914-4/6 conversions. That's one reason why it's always good to take a look at ads for rusty 914s.
Woody, years ago I pulled the original 2.7 and replaced it with a 3.0. In a fluke, a connecting rod broke in the 3.0 and punched a hole in the case. I was in the process of tearing down the 3.0 when we decided to move. Instead of moving the 3.0 that was beyond repair I stopped the teardown and sold what I could. I still have some parts laying around. But it helped me to just put hands on one and work on it. I'm of the opinion you can only learn so much from a book or the internet. For example, I dealt with broken exhaust studs during the teardown of the 3.0 which helped when I had a couple on the 3.2 currently in the car.
Good idea on the 914's I'll have to look at some of those I know near me.
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