PSA: Always use jackstands.

Just got word this morning that my MIL's cousin passed away last night after the car he was working on fell on him. I've heard that "the jack failed", and that would be consistent with a car falling, so I'm assuming he wasn't using any.

Now my wife is all freaked out--anyone know the safest jackstand or alternative there is? I've just got a set of relatively cheap ones.

Occasionally I'll skip the stands for something like a tire swap where I won't be under the vehicle at any point (and it'll only be in the air briefly), but I still slide a wheel under a rocker panel to limit how far it could fall.

Anything where I'll be under it or it'll be in the air for any period of time and it gets stands. I usually figure that assuming a 50% de-rate on any jackstand should leave plenty of margin for error (and the larger stands have a bigger base for more stability). And if I've got a wheel off, it goes under a rocker panel as an extra safety. On top of that, if possible, I tend to leave the jack in place but not holding any weight.

Even when I use jack stands I'll have the wheels off and under the car in a spot that doesn't get in the way. Still I don't like being under the car.

In reply to mtn:

Dang, that sucks.

You could jack up your car and lower it onto the jackstands, then have your wife jump up and down in the car to demonstrate the strength and stability of your stands. You could also point to the multitude of stores catering to DIY auto repair and the rarity of jackstand-related news stories as further evidence that you are safe in your work practices.

Unfortunately, it seems like we have one of these threads semi-regularly because someone made a fatal mistake.

I've been relying on HF jackstands for years. I have a pair of the "regular" ones and a pair of the larger "truck" ones that I use for higher-ride-height vehicles or to get something way up in the air. I always give the car a good shove once it's on the jackstands to make sure it's secure and won't shift. I'd rather that happen when I'm standing next to it than when I'm under it. And of course, I put the wheels under the rockers.

If I'm gonna be under the car for any period of time, I have a simple HF jack stand under the side I'm on. If space permits, the tire and the jack raised stay under the car, too.

I don't expect the tire or jack to save my life if the car were to fall, but hopefully gives me those few precious nano seconds to move out of the way.

mtn,

If your wife wants to buy you a set of jackstands, have her get you Hein-Werners.

I do what RSlifkin does (including the bad habit of the tire change, but with the same safety measure)

I think Angrycorvair has the right idea though. Put it up on 4 posts and give it a good shaking. Let her get in and out of the car, etc.

That being said. I had the car on jack stands for a LOOOOOOONG period of time, had done a TON of work to it and when I lowered it again I noticed that the rear stands were teetering on two feet. Please check them before each visit underneath.

During an earlier thread about a similarly tragic situation Curmudgeon/Jensenman posted a pic with some discussion about the wood pyramid style stands he built out of 6x6's. The picture got lost to the photobucket nonsense but I copied and pasted some of the back and forth:

Curmudgeon said: After the last thread like this, I built 4 of these:

6x6's predrilled with 10" lag bolts holding them together, then 2x6's across the bottom and top to add a little height. Even if they somehow were to roll over, it's still high enough that you won't get squashed.

Got the plans that you can post? I would like to make some but don't see the lag bolts.

Hidden by the 2x6's. Down through the top with maybe a quick countersink to hide the bolt head and slap on the 2x6 with some deck screws.

I need to gin up some plans and post them. But it's not hard to do: I predrilled the bottom 2 from one side with a long 3/8" spade bit, then used an air impact to run the 1/2" lag bolts in. Then from the top I predrilled 2 holes straight down, I spaced them so they wouldn't hit the two horizontal ones and countersunk the holes so the heads of the bolts wouldn't stick out. Then I air impacted those also, the 2x6's are nailed on. All the lag bolts have thick washers, too. I got the cheapest galvanized handles I could find and used wood screws to stick them on. It could be done without the air impact but man that made it a lot easier. The best part as I noted earlier: even if they were to somehow roll over they'd still be tall enough to keep the car from landing on you.

Interesting-found the picture on Rennlist (they must host photos):

Hungary Bill wrote: I do what RSlifkin does (including the bad habit of the tire change, but with the same safety measure) I think Angrycorvair has the right idea though. Put it up on 4 posts and give it a good shaking. Let her get in and out of the car, etc. That being said. I had the car on jack stands for a LOOOOOOONG period of time, had done a TON of work to it and when I lowered it again I noticed that the rear stands were teetering on two feet. Please check them before each visit underneath.

THIS! I too have had the experience of realizing that, after pulling and reinstalling an engine, subframe, or other heavy thing, the stands had shifted and the car was unstable. I now make a point of checking every time I go for a new tool.

Andy Neuman wrote: Even when I use jack stands I'll have the wheels off and under the car in a spot that doesn't get in the way. Still I don't like being under the car.

THIS. A friend of a friend died several years ago under a car. He was too cheap to buy jackstands and his wife and kids WATCHED HIM DIE when a concrete block failed. His name was John Ingram. Don't die like John!!!

Also: After this happened, I taught my wife how to use a floor jack, and if I'm wrenching alone, I always have the phone handy.

Jacks stands or I'm not getting near it while its lifted. Put me in the "throw the wheel under the rocker" crowd as well. I usually leave the jack in the lifting spot about 1/4" from touching the car as well.

I'm still thinking of making a pair of cribbing blocked about 1-foot tall to throw under the frame/rockers as well. Something like this:

Even if I get a 4-post lift at some point my paranoid self was thinking about cutting some 4x4 posts to shove in the corners posts just in case a lift lock fails.

Sucks. A friend's husband passed away a few years ago from a similar accident with a faulty hydraulic bumper/end jack (one of those big things that look like a giant hand-truck).

To be honest, after a few close calls with lifting cars to get them on jack stands, it made the cost of my scissor lift much easier to justify.

Another thing I do is a bump test. I figure if it doesn't fall off when I shove the side of the car, It shouldn't when I'm under it trying to take a bolt loose.

Yep, always put wheels under the car to limit how far the car can fall. I call these "horror reducers." If he'd done this, he might have a full set of broken ribs or even damage to his skull, but he'd still be alive.

slefain wrote: Jacks stands or I'm not getting near it while its lifted. Put me in the "throw the wheel under the rocker" crowd as well. I usually leave the jack in the lifting spot about 1/4" from touching the car as well. I'm still thinking of making a pair of cribbing blocked about 1-foot tall to throw under the frame/rockers as well. Something like this: Even if I get a 4-post lift at some point my paranoid self was thinking about cutting some 4x4 posts to shove in the corners posts just in case a lift lock fails.

Very happy with mine.

After watching a crappy jackstand drop a car on a friends foot during a brake job i added the wheel under the rocker too my normal standards. I primarily use the lift at work now but will refuse to get under a car without stands or mechanical lift locks.

Hard to go wrong with a chunk of wood, and an 8' 6x6 gives you eight 1' long blocks.

mtn wrote: Now my wife is all freaked out--anyone know the safest jackstand or alternative there is? I've just got a set of relatively cheap ones.

I have a pair of ESCO stands that I really like.

I've been trying to order a pair of JackPoint stands for the past few months but, as of yesterday, they continue to be backordered by six weeks.

poopshovel again wrote:

Andy Neuman wrote: Even when I use jack stands I'll have the wheels off and under the car in a spot that doesn't get in the way. Still I don't like being under the car.

THIS. A friend of a friend died several years ago under a car. He was too cheap to buy jackstands and his wife and kids WATCHED HIM DIE when a concrete block failed. His name was John Ingram. Don't die like John!!! Also: After this happened, I taught my wife how to use a floor jack, and if I'm wrenching alone, I always have the phone handy.

PSA: Concrete is really bad at being a jackstand!!

Here are some random jack stand/car support observation from my over thirty years of messing with cars.

In my observation most car falling incidents are from poor practices not from jack stand failure. If you use a quality, properly positioned jack stands on a hard level surface then you're really quite safe. I don't have a specific brand recommendation for a jack stand but if it feels like cheap junk it probably is.

Don't use concrete blocks. Really, just don't. They're not designed for the point loads that they experience under a car and if they do fail it'll be violently and catastrophic.

Wood blocks are good if they're used properly. As someone will likely point out, firefighters use wood blocks (and call them cribbing) to support vehicles and other stuff during extrication and rescue operations. There are two things to avoid with wood blocks.

One is don't use blocks with cracks in them. You wouldn't think this would be a necessary warning but I've seen it done way too many times.

The other is don't use them in a way that applies a narrow or point load to the grain. Think about sliding this pile of block under the pinch weld oriented like it is in the picture and then think about how a wood splitter works and you'll immediately see why that's a bad idea. If you rotate the pile 90 degrees then you've got a very safe arrangement.

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In reply to APEowner:

I was about to say the same thing about the grain with those blocks! Especially with soft wood...

I use a cribbing on the semi permanent car fixture in the garage. I do have to recommend building in some wheel chocks in the design. Tall narrow cribbing will topple too so wide and pyramid like is good.

For basic front end work on the driving cars I use the biggest Jack and stands that I can fit/afford and wheel chocks....

Did I mention wheel chocks? Nothing like watching a car roll back slightly and tip the jack stands.

Jere wrote: Did I mention wheel chocks? Nothing like watching a car roll back slightly and tip the jack stands.

Or roll off ramps and into a closed garage door...

Driving back from dinner one night and saw a Subaru Forester on a sloped driveway with the LF wheel off and a jack under the front jack point. I thought to myself: I really hope there is a chock in the back and that no one is ever under that car while they change or repair the wheel/tire.

In reply to MrJoshua:

Thought the same thing. Thanks for posting.