questions about the 2011 challenge rules

1. All parts used at the event (including multiple sets of tires) shall be part of that $2010 budget.

   1. The maximum amount of money that can be recouped in a budget is $1005. This includes parts cars, parts deals and the Challenge car itself.

question about rule 15.

there is an auto cross,drag race and show&shine...

you will need three sets of wheels and tires to compete,how is it possible to stay with in budget in doing this? my idea is why not allow a revision of this rule to be something like the set of wheels and tires that is applied to the car at the time of the individual competion,if all sets of wheels and tires in question have the same value?

in explanation lets say the wheels and tires you will be using in the autox have a value of $600 tires being the most expensive component,and with the drag race they have the same value but a majority of the expense being the rear set and a super cheapo set for the front. and finally for the show and shine where the whole budget can be alloted towards the wheels and a set of throw away tires which are in your attic collecting dust costing nothing. because for this individual competion the main emphasis is on appearance rather than performance.

also for rule 17.

if your mule cost's $1,500 initially you automatically lose $495 of your budget cap? can some revision be made to this rule and be stated that you can only recoupe 100% of initial cost of mule or revise the other rule of the $500car to prorate the percentage of money that competitor can recoup to even the field...

reason being is the only way my formula will work is if i can recoup %100 percent of the cost of my mule.and the $500 one i found was sold minutes before i arrived to purchase it...also the reason for my particular mule is to be able to sell all of the parts not needed to be able to purchase tools and safety equipment needed to complete the project as i don't have a shop or other race cars to scavenge from

this is my idea of grass roots racing... starting with nothing to end up with a somewhat competitive vehicle that still cost you nothing out of pocket except for late nights ,blisters and bloody knuckles

thanks for viewing my post

We ran all 3 events, and 24 hours of Lemons and BABE rally on one set of tires. Sure they are not optimized for any event but you do what you gotta do. The goal is not to make the perfect vehicle, if it was we could just do away with the budgets. Instead it is to make it as close to perfect as you can within the restraints. If you need 3 sets of tires then you need to shop carefully and cut corners elsewhere. But most folks make due on one set of tires or a set and a pair of drag radials at most.

The recoup rules were capped because yes, it is pretty easy with creative accounting and work to recoup anything to $0. In the past some $5000 or more dollar builds were recouped, on paper, to $0. In reality with enough hard work and creativity you could build a supercar recouped to $0 but the point of the event is real world builds not creative accounting. Many folks have survived within these constraints, Im sure you can find ways to fit your dream build within them as well if you work at it.

I used one set of wheels and tires for the entire event, I finished mid pack. I spent $140 on wheels and tires plus $30 to have the tires mounted.

You'll learn to be a cheapass and like it.

sounds good,seems to me i'm just gonna have to look good the whole damn time because i do have a decent amount of tread left on the tires...i guess my $495 "handicap" is gonna have to do so maybe if i am lucky I will make up for my unporformance with sheer upskirts,and maybe a few winks here and there...

also I didn't see it any where but what is the entry fee?I need to know because i am getting sponsorships for things like fuel,entry fees,and transportation ect...

thanks for your comments

skeze wrote: ...i guess my $495 "handicap" is gonna have to do ...

It's not a handicap when everyone has the same restriction. You choose where you want to spend your $2011 dollars.

$3016.50 - $1005.50 (max sell down) = $2011 (Everyone's limit)

wheels777 wrote: $3016.50 - $1005.50 (max sell down) = $2011 (Everyone's limit)

I don't get it but i guess a rule is a rule.can you explain this bit? thanks

First of all, who the heck changes wheels for the show and shine?! Has anyone ever done this? I suggest you don't. Get a set of wheels that compliment the car and fit the largest, stickiest tires you can find for the autocross, and get a cheap set of wheels to mount drag tires onto for the 1/4 mile. Then pick the setup that you think looks best for the concourse.

Second, if you spend $600 on wheels and tires it doesn't matter how good the rest of your car looks, you won't be competative. You can't spend 30% of your budget on wheels and tires. You need to find used and cheap. The first year with our E30 we got closeout Hoosier autocross tires brand new for around $320 shipped which we mounted on stock wheels. That was a steal for new rubber but still way too much of a hit on the budget. Ask around at your local autocross and see if anyone is getting rid of a "used up" set.

Third, the rules work trust us :) You can do it, but you'll find that you want to start with a car that was under $1,000 to buy. Otherwise you are handcuffing yourself on the budget.

This is all if you want to "win". The #1 rule is to have fun building a car you want to own after the Challenge. So if you bought your dream beater then have fun cleaning it up and modifying it to be faster and better looking and don't worry about eeking out every last bit of budget, just show up and enjoy.

You bought your car for $1500. You can sell $1005.50 worth of parts off of it. You have $494.50 dollar counting towards your $2011 limit. You have $1516.50 available in your budget to buy anything you believe would make your vehicle perform well in the A-x, Drags and Concour. You have maxxed out your sell down in this scenario.

What Andy said.

Thanks for handling the answers for me. The 2011 rules will be posted soon---don't expect many changes for 2011.

skeze wrote: also I didn't see it any where but what is the entry fee?I need to know because i am getting sponsorships for things like fuel,entry fees,and transportation ect...

Fees for 2010 were low, so it should be an easy sell to the sponsors. $125 for car and driver and $50 for each additional driver/attendee. Even presupposing a slight increase for 2011 the deal is very good. Also, the host hotel had an excellent group rate that I do not remember exactly but it was inexpensive.

VP race fuel was available at the track for 1 hour each morning, something like 9-10 am iirc. 5 gallon can for $50; either 103 or 112; bring a funnel... of course there is a gas station outside the track if 93 will be enough for you...

Be aware that the track isn't actually very close to the hotel, at least 20 mins depending on traffic.

I do not have a head for numbers, but many people here have studied the budget issues from every angle so I will leave that for them to explain

Ok, so I just happened to have the paperwork in front of me and the host hotel was under $100 a night after taxes and served up a pretty decent breakfast spread.

and I see wheels has already clarified himself, man that guy is fast at everything...

I believe the hotel rate wound up being around $97/night with all taxes and everything.

unevolved wrote: I believe the hotel rate wound up being around $97/night with all taxes and everything.

Really? I think I paid $110 a night after taxes. WTH?

If i bought a part for the car, and traded it for another part straight up, i don't have to apply FMV to the new part, correct? I can apply what i paid for the first part?

Example: I pay $150 for a turbo. I end up trading it for a clutch/flywheel package probably worth a bit more. Do i take a FMV hit, or a $150 hit?

Per Schroeder wrote: What Andy said. ---don't expect many changes for 2011.

What? No claim rule???!!!

Sorry. Yes, 28 days already ....

You are evil

93celicaGT2 wrote: Example: I pay $150 for a turbo. I end up trading it for a clutch/flywheel package probably worth a bit more. Do i take a FMV hit, or a $150 hit?

If the deal is available to everybody, it sounds like it is fair game.

HiTempguy wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote: Example: I pay $150 for a turbo. I end up trading it for a clutch/flywheel package probably worth a bit more. Do i take a FMV hit, or a $150 hit?

If the deal is available to everybody, it sounds like it is fair game.

Available to anyone that had a similar turbo, yes. That works.

914Driver wrote:

Per Schroeder wrote: What Andy said. ---don't expect many changes for 2011.

What? No claim rule???!!!

I predict clam stickers.

tb wrote: and I see wheels has already clarified himself, man that guy is fast at everything...

trying.....not.....to.....say.....

That's what she said!

93celicaGT2 wrote: If i bought a part for the car, and traded it for another part straight up, i don't have to apply FMV to the new part, correct? I can apply what i paid for the first part? Example: I pay $150 for a turbo. I end up trading it for a clutch/flywheel package probably worth a bit more. Do i take a FMV hit, or a $150 hit?

Sure seems fair to me. That's playing the market.

FWIW, for the gazillionth time:

A used set of 13 X 9 Diamonds or Aero wheels can be had for ~$100. Brand new, they can be had for $35-$55 per wheel. 4-5 year old hoosiers with cord showing were good enough for 2nd in the autocross. A quart of white appliance epoxy paint is around $15.

A pair of used slicks in really good shape can be had all day for $100. Mount them to whatever wheels came with the car.

unevolved wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote: If i bought a part for the car, and traded it for another part straight up, i don't have to apply FMV to the new part, correct? I can apply what i paid for the first part? Example: I pay $150 for a turbo. I end up trading it for a clutch/flywheel package probably worth a bit more. Do i take a FMV hit, or a $150 hit?

Sure seems fair to me. That's playing the market.

I'm not sure I agree. For example (near-real scenario): I buy non-running M5 for $2000. Install valve shim (free), trade running car for "some car worth $8000". I'd argue that while that's playing the market, it doesn't really meet the intent of the rules. But I haven't done this "challenge thing"...YET.
Thoughts? The "playing the market" philosophy can result in a "paper clip like" Ebay game.

njansenv wrote: Thoughts? The "playing the market" philosophy can result in a "paper clip like" Ebay game.

Why would you get rid of the M5?

I think it is more geared towards parts though not whole cars.

I dunno, if you showed how you were able to trade up in very fine detail I might want to see it at the Challenge.

What ever happened to that story about the paper clip?