Quickest/Easiest four cylinder at 350 hp for typical challenge motor money - part deux

Hey guys, remember this thread?

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/quickesteasiest-four-cylinder-at-350-hp-for-typica/40767/page1/

Everyone loved it and we had lots of fun. let's do it again, but this time RWD.

The original verbiage is still relevant. This isn't just mindless, there is a real thought here, although I am not spilling just yet.

Just like the thread says, find me a four cylinder (or other compact, lightweight) engine combo good for 350 HP (with reasonable reliability and area under the curve) for a [RWD] app. I don't really care about anything else, other than the transmissions have to be able to bolt on with relative ease and not break with that power level.

It's a high number, I know. If I have to go with a six cylinder, or a more weighty engine, we're looking for a bit more HP. Unicorns don't count. Don't tell me about LS stuff, I know about that, [redacted].

Neon/Stratus engine mated to Toyota transmission by way of Jeep/Dakota bellhousing?

Ecotec and Duratec are also in play, as well, but they need rods and stuff first.

There's always 4G63 but they're getting expensive to find and you need to get a rare-as-all-getout bellhousing for it, IIRC.

Knurled wrote: Neon/Stratus engine mated to Toyota transmission by way of Jeep/Dakota bellhousing? Ecotec and Duratec are also in play, as well, but they need rods and stuff first.

Not sure on Ecotec as far as engine/transmission/mods/management within a Challenge budget - have a recipe?

KA24DE + Boost?

Heavy though :(

AND

Can easily be done for challenge money. I'll have about 600$ into my challenge engine OTD, and if you can find a clean B2K shell (Fat lot of luck in the great rust belt, but ATL's probably got 40 right now for about 20 bucks and a case of tallboys), you're there. Will be STUPID light too since the B trucks were stamped out of tin cans and gum wrappers.

Ecotech is supposed to be boost friendly, don't know the perfect in's and outs, should be widely documented though. Solstice or Colorado could supply a trans.

I thought four-cylinder Colorados used the 2.7l "2/3rds a 4200" engine.

Has anyone mentioned blanking off one head of a 5.3? No?

Knurled wrote: I thought four-cylinder Colorados used the 2.7l "2/3rds a 4200" engine.

That engine is not compact or lightweight. Wow. it is TALL.

mndsm wrote: AND Can easily be done for challenge money. I'll have about 600$ into my challenge engine OTD, and if you can find a clean B2K shell (Fat lot of luck in the great rust belt, but ATL's probably got 40 right now for about 20 bucks and a case of tallboys), you're there. Will be STUPID light too since the B trucks were stamped out of tin cans and gum wrappers.

Dude, didn't the F2T win the FWD 350HP thread too? I guess it's true, "F2T all the things!"

F2t attached to a b2600 trans or a t2 trans with a b2600 bellhousing.

Or a miata 6spd if you get lucky.

Kia Sportage 2.0 dohc motor with pretty much the same transmissions. The Sportage trans might even handle it.

Or combine the two... I'm working on getting the kia head on an f2t block.

Find a good deal on a mildly built miata motor? I've got a "built" 1.6 with a good 1.8 5spd I'll be dumping soon for cheap.

The rwd toyota 2.7 is strong.

Turbo II RX7 with full boltons and a tune

Ahhhhh well well well this is a bit of a tough one

Miata+KLDE/w turbo?

Will have to think of others when more sober lol

JtspellS wrote: Will have to think of others when more sober lol

NO!

Drunk bench racing is the best kind! Keep drinking until you suggest a turbocharger turned into a gas turbine and then stop.

tuna55 wrote:

mndsm wrote: AND Can easily be done for challenge money. I'll have about 600$ into my challenge engine OTD, and if you can find a clean B2K shell (Fat lot of luck in the great rust belt, but ATL's probably got 40 right now for about 20 bucks and a case of tallboys), you're there. Will be STUPID light too since the B trucks were stamped out of tin cans and gum wrappers.

Dude, didn't the F2T win the FWD 350HP thread too? I guess it's true, "F2T all the things!"

It helps that approximately 4 people on earth are aware of what these freakshow engines are capable of, and two of them are myself and Ben.

Quickest AND easiest?? sr20.I win It'll probably also be closest to the cheapest.

Swank Force One wrote: F2t attached to a b2600 trans or a t2 trans with a b2600 bellhousing. Or a miata 6spd if you get lucky. Kia Sportage 2.0 dohc motor with pretty much the same transmissions. The Sportage trans might even handle it. Or combine the two... I'm working on getting the kia head on an f2t block. Find a good deal on a mildly built miata motor? I've got a "built" 1.6 with a good 1.8 5spd I'll be dumping soon for cheap. The rwd toyota 2.7 is strong.

OK, what's a T2 transmission?

What engine is in the Kia?

What turbos on all of these?

None of them are going into anything remotely close to what they were born in - what else do I need to make it happen? I've only ever swapped carbed engines...

In reply to tuna55:

There is a small.issue with the f2t. It takes balls and throwing out conventional wisdom to make an actual 350whp. The thing is, 350whp out of an f2t will be the scariest and fastest 350whp you'll get out of any 4 cylinder.

mndsm wrote: It helps that approximately 4 people on earth are aware of what these freakshow engines are capable of, and two of them are myself and Ben.

Well, you and Ben may inspire me. If I get the truck done, and IF I can hold back the cash, and IF I can hold the lemons team at bay for a Challenge entry, and IF I can make it make a real honest 350+, I may just show Andy.

OK, enough of that.

Swank Force One wrote: In reply to tuna55: There is a small.issue with the f2t. It takes balls and throwing out conventional wisdom to make an actual 350whp. The thing is, 350whp out of an f2t will be the scariest and fastest 350whp you'll get out of any 4 cylinder.

All of this sounds hilarious and stupid-fun - the best kind of fun.

tuna55 wrote:

JtspellS wrote: Will have to think of others when more sober lol

NO! Drunk bench racing is the best kind! Keep drinking until you suggest a turbocharger turned into a gas turbine and then stop.

Ok idea,

In a .......

tuna55 wrote:

Knurled wrote: Neon/Stratus engine mated to Toyota transmission by way of Jeep/Dakota bellhousing? Ecotec and Duratec are also in play, as well, but they need rods and stuff first.

Not sure on Ecotec as far as engine/transmission/mods/management within a Challenge budget - have a recipe?

Since he didn't give a recipe I will.

srt4 engine + liberty/wrangler bell + solstice/sky MA5 = win.

On top of all that it is a known combo so no "it might work" here.

EDIT: 350 out of a 2.4 is easy, the stock long block is known to go to 400 with the right turbo/intercooler/intake. Also the PT turbo engine is the same engine, it makes less power do to the ECM programming. I've seen at least half a dozen PT turbos in the yard in the past year, engines are ~300 a pop.

Or

And take out all the FWD transfer case BS

In reply to tuna55:

T2 trans is an fc rx7 turbo 2 trans.

Kia motor is a slightly dumbed down mazda fe3n, the rods are obscenely strong.

You'd need to fab mounts, fuel/oil lines, and probably just go megasquirt off the bat.

Swank Force One wrote: In reply to tuna55: T2 trans is an fc rx7 turbo 2 trans. Kia motor is a slightly dumbed down mazda fe3n, the rods are obscenely strong. You'd need to fab mounts, fuel/oil lines, and probably just go megasquirt off the bat.

ok, so F2T plus a RX7 tranny plus megasquirt. Which is cheaper and has more potential, the F2T or the Kia thing?

moparman76_69 wrote: Since he didn't give a recipe I will. srt4 engine + liberty/wrangler bell + solstice/sky MA5 = win. On top of all that it is a known combo so no "it might work" here. EDIT: 350 out of a 2.4 is easy, the stock long block is known to go to 400 with the right turbo/intercooler/intake. Also the PT turbo engine is the same engine, it makes less power do to the ECM programming. I've seen at least half a dozen PT turbos in the yard in the past year, engines are ~300 a pop.

That's sounds neat, too. Are the tranny and bell hard to come by?

Surprised no one mentioned it yet, but I'm thinking Ford 2.3 Turbo. Really cheap if you look around, super over-built, comes in RWD configuration. I think you can probably make 350 hp with just a big turbo, injectors and a megasquirt. The Ford guys say 400 whp on a bone-stock longblock is safe all day long. Lots of transmission options since the T5s will bolt up.

It's also a super small engine. One downside though, it's all iron.