Is it just me or has rally world not adapted the HANS devices nor full face helmets? Seems with every onboard crash video I see neither? I though open face helmets went out of style with Days of Thunder.
I mean with the possibility of hitting some really hard stuff with no run off room it seems a bit asinine. Just kinda surprised more than anything.
In reply to MattW:
You can have a neck restraint with an open helmet. I'm pretty sure everyone wears one by now.
head and neck restraints are required at every level. Open face helmets are used due to in car communication systems for the driver and co driver and due to fogging issues with full face helmets. Almost everyone uses full containment halo seats as well.
HANS has been required in the US for at least a decade. Not sure about other countries' sanctioning bodies.
There was a somewhat well publicized incident a few years ago where someone in a TR7 got killed by landing hard off of a crest, and the HANS was implicated in injuring his spine.
Interesting stuff. I guess I must be seeing a lot of international footage. It just boggles my mind considering the possibility of a massive shunt these guys take when things go wrong.
In reply to MattW:
Other countries have interesting safety rules. I think the cage rule in many places is that the cage must meet the homologation spec that the car was homologated to. So you may see open-design bolt-in cages in older cars. (Theory goes, if the cage was good enough in 1987, a 1987-spec car is safe with a 1987 cage, assuming that the rest of the car is also to homologation spec)
They have at least banned aluminum rollcages.
HANS required in Canada.
This might be dated information, but coming from an exposure to road racing, the open-faced helmets in rally surprised me at first. When I was working on an SCCA rally team in the very late 90's/early 2000's, the teams I knew seemed to be fairly pragmatic about it: you spend hours and hours in the car, and fogging can be a problem, the comm systems are designed for open face, and the instances of a survivable shunt involving face injury were rare. Not sure how things are now.
In reply to ae86andkp61:
The hits that are really bad are side hits. Hit a tree sideways at 80mph and you're probably done no matter what kind of safety equipment you have. Side hits are where rally cages differ significantly from other kinds of cages, they're designed to take point/line impacts instead of broader hits.
In reply to Knurled:
Yup. A local buddy of mine had a bad off a couple years back, and the tree intrusion into the side of the car not only broke his pelvis, but trapped him in the car for quite a while! 
The accident and long recovery caused him to have a pretty big rethink about things.
This topic can get morbid quickly, but I guess the point I was trying to make is that a lot of teams worry about a stout cage, and worry about the most treacherous parts of some stages, worry about properly torqued fasteners, worry about visibility out of the car. They have plenty of worries, and as such, the very rare case of the chance of a broken nose or cracked jaw from an open face helmet (which I've never heard of in rally) doesn't often filter high up the list.
Yeah, HANS is used for all US rally organizations (ARA, RA, NASA, SCCA rallysprint, etc). We use open-face because of the aforementioned fogging issues (rally cars are out there in snow, rain, giant puddles, etc), and communication if our comms go out. Also codrivers have a hard time reading notes in many cases using full-face helmets. Some rallyists do use full-face, but not that many that I know. Unlike road racing, fire is not as much of a danger since there are rarely multi-car accidents where fuel spills and ignition take place. Most rally fires allow time for drivers to get out. Our cages are stronger than road-race cages - and we usually aren't going at as high speeds as a road-racer hitting a wall, for instance. Though oddly, rally cages aren't required to have a dash bar in most organizations as road-race cars are (though most do). I guess there's the chance of a tree branch through the windshield or something, but we could come up with 100 ways to die rallying.
Frankly, considering what we are doing is dangerous in the first place, with many ways to get hurt, the danger of an open face is something I've never worried about. BTW, I wear a full-face for road racing and have no interest in using it for rally. YMMV. Rally isn't road racing, and nobody in rally wants it to be.
Foreign countries have all kinds of rules.
captdownshift wrote: head and neck restraints are required at every level. Open face helmets are used due to in car communication systems for the driver and co driver and due to fogging issues with full face helmets. Almost everyone uses full containment halo seats as well.
Honestly, less than half the cars I see at most rallies have full halo seats. Some of it may be cost (doubtful), fitting in certain cars is tough (ours would require modifying our cage), and for rally there's always the concern of getting out of a car sinking in a lake or upside down or whatever. In some cars having a halo seat would make tht VERY difficult since our cages have A-pillar support bars so the door opening is much smaller than a road-racing car. These are points I've heard others make as well. I was considering it, but it's not high on my list for the aforementioned reasons.
That said, the higher-dollar, higher-speed cars tend to have halo seats, while privateers and slower cars are less likely to (like us).
We use halo seats in our track car, FWIW. We may test on in the rally car this year, but my measurements don't make me confident that it will fit with our main hoop to halo diagonal bars. We shall see.
In reply to irish44j:
I wouldn't be able to get in (or out) of my Honda if I used a full halo seat!
NGTD wrote: In reply to irish44j: I wouldn't be able to get in (or out) of my Honda if I used a full halo seat!
yeah, it's pretty difficult on our track e30 sedan with a regular track cage. The rally car has about 18" less opening width due to the A-pillar support, so only a very small, flexible person would be able to do it, I think.I am neither of those things!
In reply to irish44j:
It took lots of practice and increased flexibility for me to manage to wiggle out with the halo. Having 9 documented concussions, only 2 from motorsport, I feel that it's a worthwhile hassle in my case, though understand it not being as much of a concern for others.
HANS is required over by me. The most important reason open-face helmets have to be used is because driving in a car on public roads with your face covered is illegal in most places, at least for the driver and often for passengers as well.
I also thought it was strange and backwards that open-face helmets were so common in rallying until I learned this.
Head and neck restraints are required by every performance rally organization in the US and Canada.
Open face helmets are still very much in use with Co-drivers, while drivers are moving more towards closed face. Co-drivers are not required to wear gloves either. I co-drive(as well as drive). There are several advantages to open face in that situation. With neck restraints it limits your downward vision in a closed face. That makes it hard to read the notes, it also makes it hard to see your buckles as you strap in, which you must often do in a hurry, and frequently. Motion sickness is a concern for some, and a full face isn't so much fun for that. If you have a failure with your communication system, having an open face helps the co-driver yell directions over the roar of the engine. The go to helmet for co-drivers is a Stilo helmet that has an integrated book, which provides limited facial protection, at least compared to a full open face. In theory, facial protection should not be necessary for impact. If it gets to that point, you'll have greater issues. However facial fire protection is important, and most go to nomex balaclava to gain that.
I personally prefer the hybrid head and neck restraint, as it adds more side protection, making a wing back seat less necessary. This allows for better access to get in and out of the car as you frequently have to do. Interior nets, can help with side movements.
irish44j wrote:NGTD wrote: In reply to irish44j: I wouldn't be able to get in (or out) of my Honda if I used a full halo seat!yeah, it's pretty difficult on our track e30 sedan with a regular track cage. The rally car has about 18" less opening width due to the A-pillar support, so only a very small, flexible person would be able to do it, I think.I am neither of those things!
I am 6'4", 330 and 49. I am neither small, flexible or young!
If halo seats were mandated, I wouldn't be able to rally.
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