"Real" street racing, '70s style.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Thank you for the video, man some of you young kids have the attention span of a flea. That was awesome. So what if the cars are slower, it doesn't mean the drivers were trying less than today, I thought it was awesome. I am really really stunned at how views have changed on safety. Most of what you saw there wouldn't be acceptable for a slow speed autocross, let alone a race with cars exiting corners are 100+ mph. To people complaining about the speeds, tires and brakes have improved immeasurably over the last 20, let alone 40 years. Heck, a decent summer street tire has more grip than a set of R comps from 15 years ago, and brakes have come a long long way. Cross drilled rotors were actually needed for out gassing back then rather than a fashion statement today. Just go and look at the size of brakes on a corvette, Porsche or Ferrari from the early 70's, smaller than a modern Fiesta. To the person complaining about only reaching 4th gear once, remember back then most cars only had a 4 or sometimes 5 speed gearbox. If you look at something like a 1976 Porsche 930, which remember was later than this, the factory car could do nearly 130mph in 3rd gear. Those same basic cars in 936 trim were pushing 200 mph in race conditions ON A 4 SPEED BOX!!! Gearing was different back then. Again, thanks to the OP, what a great watch, I'll read the links at lunch time.

I don't care how "slow" these things might be by today's standards. Today's stuff is nowhere near as cool.

It’s unfortunate that this thread deviated from the original subject because the Pontiac Wide Track races of 1974 and 1975 were good events created by some dedicated and enthusiastic people.

I participated in the 1975 race with my C-Production Lotus Elan and had a really great time. Too bad it will be forever remembered as the race that took the life of Warren Tope. 53 cars were entered including Corvette stalwarts Tony DeLorenzo and John Greenwood. DeLorenzo who crashed big time in the 1974 race did not show. Greenwood practiced in the wide body IMSA Corvette but decline to qualify concerned about track safety. Warren Tope (1974 winner) was back but now with a McLaren M6B in place of his Pantera.

The 90 minuite race began with a LeMans type start where 37 drivers ran across the track to their cars to be assisted with harnesses by crew and officials. Tope in the McLaren was fastest qualifier but got a really slow start in 22nd place as Lap 1 began. He charged through the field and took the lead on Lap 7. By Lap 18 Tope had passed and lapped all but the 2nd and 3rd place Corvettes of Tim Morgan and Buzz Fyhrie. For reasons that are not fully clear he went off the track (at turn one I think) and under the temporary guard rail. His injuries were fatal and the race was stopped for about an hour while the accident site was cleared and the guard rail repaired. On the restart I was 3rd overall behind the 2 Corvettes. After 55 laps of racing I finished in 8th place because I needed to pit twice for fuel while the cars finishing 3rd through 7th stopped only once. Local Pontiac racer Tim Morgan won with Buzz Fyhrie from Wheaton, IL (who posted the Youtube video) in second place. Prize money was paid through 13th…..we were all now pros!

The speeds may not look impressive in the video but believe me this was a real on real city streets all lined by curbs and utility poles. Warren Tope’s pole position time was 69.2 MPH for the 1.46 mile circuit.

If Mazda787b wants more information I have the Race Program, Entry List, Final Standing and Photos plus the Detroit New article about the race.

The Pontiac Wide Track race was really fun and unfortunate that it could not be continued. Like me several of the 1975 participants are still active in Vintage Racing. We can now we can get our fix for racing on city streets at the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix which is in its 33 year and is truly a wonderful event to participate in or just to watch.

Clark Lance

In reply to Mazda787b:

First of all, thanks for re-posting this. I missed it the first time you did on the CM forum. I wasn't aware of these two races back in '74 and '75, and wasn't even aware that Warren Tope died there in '75. Now I know. I'd seen him race in Trans Am races at Lime Rock and his name was familiar back in the '70s, but he was usually a second tier competitor in Trans Am, overshadowed by the bigger names. A few observations on the footage:

1. I don't care what some here think, the cars were going fast. Real fast. Especially on the straight. Anybody who's seen a Can Am McLaren at full speed knows that. (Anybody that knows what a McLaren is knows that). And Warren Tope knew how to drive fast. It has nothing to do with being a 40-year old event. Hell, Tazio Nuvolari was fast, and that was in the thirties.

2. It'd be difficult to do something like that today by a small organization like the Waterford Hills group. Insurance would be outrageously expensive, and there would be so many barricades the spectators wouldn't be able to see the action. The VSCCA was thinking about doing something like that in downtown Springfield, MA a couple years ago and realized it just wasn't possible. I don't know how the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix has lasted as long as it has.

3. I love the "run whatcha brung" rules and LeMans start format.

4. I used to have an IMSA T-shirt like that. It was relegated to shop rag status thirty years ago and is long gone.

5. The guys' shorts were too short, but that was the seventies.

6. The guys with mustaches look like they should have been in porn flicks, but that was the seventies. (Not that I've ever seen one).

7. The girls on top of the van looked great. I wonder what they look like today?

I wonder how big that in-car camera was?

Thank you for the follow-up Lance54. Can you post copies of the race program amd news article? I grew up in the area and still drive these streets every day to work!

With some time at can scan the documents. The Wide Track Races should be remembered for more than just the tragic moments. May be best is we communicate offline somehow.

Was I ever excited when I saw this thread bumped!

I would definitely love to see any old literature you have Lance. If you're still in the Detroit area, I'd be more than willing to help archive it all.

I'm honestly surprised there is so little information out there, but I've been obsessing over this event for over a year.

Now in New Jersey. Email me and I will respond with more information.

Clark

I responded via email to someone named Jeff L but I'm not sure he is Mazda787b.

If Mazda787b would like to converse about the Wide Track Races he should email me via the address that I have on file with this forum.

Clark

In reply to Gary: I agree! Great film clips! Thanks for the link!!

As to the girls on the van? Since they appeared younger than I was that year, I'd probably still think they were hot! Many of you on this forum could probably call them Mom or Mom's friend.