Rebuilding an automatic transmission

So in trying to help a friend, I've traded for a 2002 Taurus in nice shape with transmission issues. Shop the friend took it to diagnosed it as a torque converter. Failure sounds identical to what happened to my girlfriend a couple of years ago in her basically identical car. I've found a couple of junkyard transmissions, but I'm thinking I might take a stab at it myself since it's not something I have to drive to work in the morning and parts seem to be pretty cheap. Car is a Vulcan/AX4N, column shift. I figure if I get in over my head, I'll eat the cost of a rebuild kit and put in a junkyard trans and sell the car.

So, transmission rebuilders of GRM, what am I setting myself up for? What tools will I need? Where's a good website/book/forum to start learning how these things work? Up until this point, I've done NOTHING to an automatic transmission beyond changing filter and fluid. Am I out of my mind?

Clean work environment.

Organized disassembly.

Careful and methodical reassembly.

I wouldn't do it personally (I'd rather leave it with somebody who knows what they're doing), but if you've got junkyard units available, give it a shot.

psteav wrote: Am I out of my mind?

I think you already answered your own question.

I can't stop you from trying, remember even the best trans builder out there started at the same point at some time, but I would VERY seriously pick up a ATSG/ATRA AX4N/S rebuild book for $40, before even taking the transmission out. Read it front to back to front at least 3 or 4 times. After that, if you feel "confident", have at it.

You can remove your own appendix too, but why? Just swap in a rebuilt one or a junkyard one and move on.

pinchvalve wrote: You can remove your own appendix too, but why? Just swap in a rebuilt one or a junkyard one and move on.

Well, that's certainly the spirit. I mean, why should we mess with cars at all when there are mechanics to do all that greasy stuff for us?

Do you need a full rebuild, or a new converter and filter? Anybody comfortable with/equipped to change a CV shaft can handle snapping a new converter on and a pan drop. If the trans itself is smoked you're best off getting a good used unit or having pros rebuild it.

psteav wrote: So in trying to help a friend, I've traded for a 2002 Taurus in nice shape with transmission issues. Shop the friend took it to diagnosed it as a torque converter. Failure sounds identical to what happened to my girlfriend a couple of years ago in her basically identical car. I've found a couple of junkyard transmissions, but I'm thinking I might take a stab at it myself since it's not something I have to drive to work in the morning and parts seem to be pretty cheap. Car is a Vulcan/AX4N, column shift. I figure if I get in over my head, I'll eat the cost of a rebuild kit and put in a junkyard trans and sell the car. So, transmission rebuilders of GRM, what am I setting myself up for? What tools will I need? Where's a good website/book/forum to start learning how these things work? Up until this point, I've done NOTHING to an automatic transmission beyond changing filter and fluid. Am I out of my mind?

Automatic transmissions are the darkest form of black magic. How many goats and virgins do you have available to sacrifice?

Sky_Render wrote:

psteav wrote: So in trying to help a friend, I've traded for a 2002 Taurus in nice shape with transmission issues. Shop the friend took it to diagnosed it as a torque converter. Failure sounds identical to what happened to my girlfriend a couple of years ago in her basically identical car. I've found a couple of junkyard transmissions, but I'm thinking I might take a stab at it myself since it's not something I have to drive to work in the morning and parts seem to be pretty cheap. Car is a Vulcan/AX4N, column shift. I figure if I get in over my head, I'll eat the cost of a rebuild kit and put in a junkyard trans and sell the car. So, transmission rebuilders of GRM, what am I setting myself up for? What tools will I need? Where's a good website/book/forum to start learning how these things work? Up until this point, I've done NOTHING to an automatic transmission beyond changing filter and fluid. Am I out of my mind?

Automatic transmissions are the darkest form of black magic. How many goats and virgins do you have available to sacrifice?

Agreed. The only thing darker would be if the engine it's attached to has a carb on it. EGADS! There's not enough virgins and goats in the world to tackle that combo.

Converter and filter I can do, no problem. Shop said that the converter is the likely culprit and that the fluid looked okay when it was drained-not burned and an acceptable amount of shinies on the drainplug. That said, minimal internet research indicates that a lot of times when the failure is diagnosed as a converter, it turns out to be more than that (often the pump shaft) which means teardown and a "while you're in there" rebuild.

Part of the reason I want to do this is because its black magic. Every other subsystem on a car I'm either familiar enough to understand what's going on, or actually knowledgeable enough to fix. For all I know, there are elves inside of the transmission case. I'm tired of not knowing.

psteav wrote: Part of the reason I want to do this is because its black magic. Every other subsystem on a car I'm either familiar enough to understand what's going on, or actually knowledgeable enough to fix. For all I know, there are elves inside of the transmission case. I'm tired of not knowing.

Sorry, no elves inside.

http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/mm5/graphics/Catalog-pdf/AX4N.pdf

Sky_Render wrote: Automatic transmissions are the darkest form of black magic.

Only for the people who choose to say unlearned. They really are simple, but require extreme patience the first time.

pinchvalve wrote: You can remove your own appendix too, but why? Just swap in a rebuilt one or a junkyard one and move on.

I personally would shy away from any used organs, especially vestigial ones.

I found an AWESOME transmission guy that rebuilt my F150 4x4 transmission (clutches, bands, bearings, converter) for $1100 (cash) including all labor. Shop around.

Transmissions are one part # in my book.

Ranger50 wrote: Sorry, no elves inside. http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/mm5/graphics/Catalog-pdf/AX4N.pdf

Yeah....F that.

In reply to psteav: Be careful you might learn something that you'll wish you hadn't.

To me they ahve always seemed like black magic. However if the rebuild kit cost is not too large what do you have to lose. If it works I think the experience would be great. I know our local community college has a class on this as well. might be worth looking into.

Chris

i have done several and even screwed up one the first time and had to pull it back out and fix it.

i guess my question is - is it a keeper or are you going to flip it to get your money and hopefully a few more $ back? if the latter i'd junkyard one up, drive it for a month to make sure i'm not screwing the next owner over, and sell it.

the biggest thing is clean clean clean. and lube all the seals with trans fluid as your assemble things. the first time i did one i cut the 3-4 clutch piston seal, so it would shift 1-2 perfect, then shift 2-nothing. i don't recall if i was impatient or what but pulling a trans back out sucks, probably moreso in a FWD vehicle.

I got nothing on your present situation other than the very first mechanical task I ever attempted was to rebuild the C6 autobox in my '71 Torino GT when I was 16. I had a Motor's manual with an exploded diagram of the trans, pulled it apart carefully to look like the diagram, put the new seals in it and put it back together. Worked fine and I was no longer scared of (or disliked) automatic transmissions.

Do not just replace the converter as anything it puked out is now spread to small areas you can't flush with out full tear down. Use the link above and get book then read it once you understand it order the full rebuild kit and look for problem solver kits at the same time often made by Sunex a made in the usa company out of VT. They seem to have kits to fix common trans problems for every make and model. then as above clean room and time. Try to set aside a whole weekend and do it all in that one time frame as it will stay freash in your mind.

Best of luck!

44

Actually the transmission itself is fairly simple and easy to rebuild with the proper tools. Most times it is worn clutches. Now the valve body is a whole different ball game.

iceracer wrote: Actually the transmission itself is fairly simple and easy to rebuild with the proper tools. Most times it is worn clutches. Now the valve body is a whole different ball game.

Which can easily cost more than a rebuilt transmission. ;)

erohslc wrote:

iceracer wrote: Actually the transmission itself is fairly simple and easy to rebuild with the proper tools. Most times it is worn clutches. Now the valve body is a whole different ball game.

Which can easily cost more than a rebuilt transmission. ;)

Not really, but if you want the whole hog, you would be close to a $1200 rebuild, depending on what you bought.

I can buy a benchtop spring press for $150, pliers are about $100 for all that you will need, you can get buy without buying the $3-550 bushing driver set, and be ready to rock and roll on 80% of the automatics out there.

Bobzilla wrote:

Sky_Render wrote:

psteav wrote: So in trying to help a friend, I've traded for a 2002 Taurus in nice shape with transmission issues. Shop the friend took it to diagnosed it as a torque converter. Failure sounds identical to what happened to my girlfriend a couple of years ago in her basically identical car. I've found a couple of junkyard transmissions, but I'm thinking I might take a stab at it myself since it's not something I have to drive to work in the morning and parts seem to be pretty cheap. Car is a Vulcan/AX4N, column shift. I figure if I get in over my head, I'll eat the cost of a rebuild kit and put in a junkyard trans and sell the car. So, transmission rebuilders of GRM, what am I setting myself up for? What tools will I need? Where's a good website/book/forum to start learning how these things work? Up until this point, I've done NOTHING to an automatic transmission beyond changing filter and fluid. Am I out of my mind?

Automatic transmissions are the darkest form of black magic. How many goats and virgins do you have available to sacrifice?

Agreed. The only thing darker would be if the engine it's attached to has a carb on it. EGADS! There's not enough virgins and goats in the world to tackle that combo.

Sorry, but the moon will not be in the correct alignment for at least six months. Therefore, you will require 10x the virgins.

Now, if you have the clean room, and access to the tools, why not try?

I rebuilt my first cars transmission when I was 15 in my parents garage with a mediocre tool set using a Haynes manual one page at a time. It's not fun but it is still on the road. (Disclaimer: it was just a 700r4, but it did hold 400 hp)

The last one I did I had a buddy that was going to help so no manual... We got it apart and his wife had an emergency pickle and ice cream craving. Back to the Haynes manual. (C6 holding 600ft lbs 500+)

Take photos every 5 minutes no matter what. Get 5 or 6 whip cream bowls for pieces. A magnet pen and a magnetic bowl. You will have spare parts... While your in there slap in a shift kit. Research any common defects or upgrades. I'm not going to throw junk parts or money if I can do it in the shop.

I say you should try it. You will get some experience with the 'black magic' and it should only take a torque converter since you took it to a shop for diagnosis.

rebuilding an auto trans is something i've never done... partly because i'd never had one go bad, and partly because i'd never really torn into one to see what makes them tick..

but a few years ago, i tore the stock 200-4r trans from my T Type apart to see what went wrong with it when it stopped working at the drag strip in the summer of '05.. i had ordered the CK Performance manual for the trans- it's considered to be THE book on those transmissions- and had the whole thing blown apart into it's basic components in about an hour... i haven't gotten it put back together yet- it needs a rear sprag and i want to upgrade a few parts while i'm in there and the money tree hasn't been bearing fruit for me for the last few years... but once i get some extra $$$ i'm gonna get the parts and put it together so i can enjoy that car again and brag to everyone about how i'm such an awesome auto trans builder.

other than being a bigger pain in the ass to get out of and back into the car, a fwd trans isn't really functionally any different than a rwd trans, so i wouldn't be scared to at least tear it apart and see what's wrong... then if i couldn't figure out how to put it back together, i'd get a junkyard trans and put that in... just be aware that Ford is big on changing things mid year, so you will need the VIN and build date of the car to increase your chance of getting the proper trans to 50%..

In reply to psteav: Before you dive in elbow deep for a rebuild, you might want to confirm the shops' diagnosis. What is the trans doing that it shouldn't? You'd be surprised what will happen if the Manual Lever Position Sensor range sensor (MLPS) goes bad. It seems to be a very common problem on many Fords and causes weird shifts into neutrals and random, hard, up or downshifts while driving. Good news is that it is a cheap, external fix.

Daryl