Removing front HALF of roll cage

GRM,

Being a moron and all, the thought crossed my mind how much better the HPDE car (Converted world challenge e36) would be with the front door bars and overhead bar removed. Would make fitting a halo seat possible, would make egress MUCH better obviously (straight X-bars), and would give me more helmet room as the overhead (padded) door bar is right against my helmet. 

Go ahead with the swift nut kicking, or tell me how big of an idiot move this would be. 4 HPDE events per year, 400whp 2700lb e36 chassis.

I assume it's a trailered car that doesn't get driven on the street?

E36s have lots of room inside, I would expect a well-built cage to leave plenty of room for the halo seat and your helmet.  Got any pics?

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

I assume it's a trailered car that doesn't get driven on the street?

E36s have lots of room inside, I would expect a well-built cage to leave plenty of room for the halo seat and your helmet.  Got any pics?

 

Correct. Trailered to events.

Will grab some pics now and upload for the group's consideration. Good idea....

You can see the cage is SUPER extensive. The overhead bar at the door has a cross bar in the corner of the window that prevents a halo seat. The X bars are not well done from a space perspective as they protrude pretty well into the cabin as you can see. 

Just remove the offending bars. You could have the door bars redone to be less of an obstruction too. Keep the halo and front A pillar bars intact, when a car falls over the top of the windshield is what usually gets pushed back toward the driver.

I would just cut out that driver door bar mess and bend some new bars that will be much more ingress/egress friendly while still having good protection.  That was a crappy design and the vertical bar doesn't even go to the sill or floor.  Strange. 

Sonic said:

I would just cut out that driver door bar mess and bend some new bars that will be much more ingress/egress friendly while still having good protection.  That was a crappy design and the vertical bar doesn't even go to the sill or floor.  Strange. 

Yeah, I don't pretend to be an expert on cage design but that looks way more restrictive than many of the BMW cages I've looked at.  Here's my E46 for comparison (yes, this is the passenger side, but the driver side is the same):

The aux support bar at the front (I think it's called an "FIA bar") goes to the same mounting point as the front hoop and the bottom of the door bar X, instead of ending in the middle of a different bar.

I would take the car to a good race cage shop (can't tell where you are to know what's local) and ask them for an opinion on how to fix it.

Codrus's car is great. That is what you should have yours modified to replicate. Don't get rid of the front part - just make it work!

If the door is basically just an outer skin then you could create more space and access by making new door bars with a bend out. In a "NASCAR" kind of way.

Yes, what Jfry said.  

I can't see Codrus' picture but I've seen his car and taken a ride in a mutual friend's car that is very similar. They are very well done and fairly easy get in/out of.

Personally, I'd be afraid that I wouldn't be able to get out of your cage after an incident. 

Thanks for all of the input hive, keep it coming. 

Was hoping the fact it's a DE car would make the improvements more DIY friendly but its leaning towards finding a shop it appears.

Is the seat mounted to the stock seat location? I find my E36 factory seat to be a little too far towards the door, slightly off center of the wheel and pedals.

I'd remove the diagonal by your left ear, and the tubes above the diagonal that goes from your shoulder to the base of the A-pillar bar, leaving the overhead bars intact. That's just sawzall and flap disc work. Otherwise, as others have said, put in some NASCAR bars out in the door.

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

I'd remove the diagonal by your left ear, and the tubes above the diagonal that goes from your shoulder to the base of the A-pillar bar, leaving the overhead bars intact. That's just sawzall and flap disc work. Otherwise, as others have said, put in some NASCAR bars out in the door.

From the indoor pics I think NASCAR-style door bars are going to require significant S-bends, I don't know if that's a good idea or not.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

I have seen one car where the NASCAR bars went through the B-pillar to get to the main hoop. The door had to have a couple of matching cutouts and was a little flimsy. I ran a SpecMiata with S-bends, had to, otherwise I wouldn't have fit through the remaining opening.

Edit: The upper bar would need bends to create room , but the lower bar can be inboard of the rockers and remain straight. 

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

Heck, the X-bars on my cage go through the B-pillar. Plenty of room in there.

If you don't want to push the door bars out to the door skin there is an option.  The set of door bars in my vintage car will go out to the inner door skin and I'm filling the door with IMPAXX foam.  My plan is to cut the inner door structure and smooth out the inside of the door with a sheet of aluminum.

There have been long arguments on how door bars long enough to reach the door skin can come into the car the same distance.

Olemiss540 said:

What the hell????  The vertical A-pillar bar is off flapping in the breeze attached to basically nothing, and the forward high part of the X also basically attaches to nothing.

The cage looks like it was designed to maximize difficulty in ingress/egress while minimizing safety, and I wonder what horrors lie in the parts you didn't show us.

I'd cut it out, mostly because whoever designed it didn't understand how tubes work.  You could probably just remove the vertical A-pillar bar and the front half of the crossbrace that it goes through, and not actually lose any safety.

buzzboy said:

Is the seat mounted to the stock seat location? I find my E36 factory seat to be a little too far towards the door, slightly off center of the wheel and pedals.

VAC adjustable floor adapters have the seat pushed towards the tunnel all of the way so that isnt as much a factor although I need to try and lean it back for more head room from the overhead bar.