I think this is what I want? Is it really what I want? Have I taken too many mushrooms and finally gone insane and this is all a fever dream that should never see reality?
After nearly 10 years of driving $2000 beaters into the ground, a paid off and low-mile truck for winter driving, and a wife in a vehicle she loves, it's my turn this spring. I've been toying with 6mt M5's if I can find one anywhere. Same for M6's and S5/RS5s, but I think I want 4 doors. I was researching in my budget and realized that panamera S/4S's are sneaky affordable for me...? ($30k MAX budget) I'm one of the very few that actually loves the look of it, as quirky as it is. It's sort of like a pug- so ugly it's kinda cute. I speak Fluent BMW and can find my way around VAG. I have a lift, a welder, youtube, and enough tools to be dangerous. If all else fails, I have a local privateer mechanic who specializes in exotics. What's the worst that can happen?
And if "everything" is the answer, what do I REALLY want? I want a high powered mileage chewer with 4 doors, 4 usable seats, and the ability to fit a golf bag or a family grocery. AWD is a bonus but not required. Wagons and sportbacks definitely make my dangly bits tingly. No mercedes, please... and I'd prefer not to talk about it. I'd love a 6-speed, but the PDK is pretty dang good for what it is, and I have some experience with it. It will never see a track, but maybe I might want to be stupid at an autocross maybe a couple times a year with it?
Basically, I want comfort and power, and maybe some reliability...? I commute 60ish miles per day of quiet, curvy fun roads, and quite want to enjoy it in a way that's different from the last 5 years of 'Let's see if this thing will shut off on me during a zipper merge' ways I'm accustomed to. Tell me everything I need to know-good, bad, and ugly.
I would sign up over at Pelican parts forum and see what those guys have to say ,
They will know what the bad things are , and it's a pretty friendly group if you go in after reading some of the forum so you do not ask the same questions that are always asked :)
You also might find a few cars for sale from other Pelican readers.
Good luck
dps214
SuperDork
12/5/23 11:26 p.m.
I don't have any specific knowledge, but I think there's nothing tremendously terrible about them as long as the particular car hasn't been abused too much. Just a couple of things to point out, regardless of what you pay for it now it was a $100k car new and is going to have $100k car operating costs. It'll chew up miles for sure, but at low 20s mpg on 93 octane it's not going to be cheap. Oil changes and other basic maintenance parts will probably be more expensive than you're used to. Pretty much any car in the category you're looking at is going to be a similar situation. I'm not saying this as a reason to not do it - you totally should - just to make sure you understand what you're going into.
I assume panameras are like other porsches where basically every option is a la carte meaning it's potentially super hard to find a used car optioned the way you want. Figure out what things you can't do with out, what's negotiable, and what you don't care about. Then good luck tracking down the option list. Unfortunately vinanalytics isn't free anymore so I'm not sure what the best way to go about that is now.
In reply to GTwannaB :
Those seats look great. Comfortable......but I know I'd choke on the maintenance costs.
I've been having the same dirty thoughts. Basically bore scoring is the big killer on these. The Audi RS7 Sportback is faster and just a nice inside is the cross shop.
For manual, you have to stick to BMW or get a B8/B8.5 S4. I love mine and prices are starting to go up a lot (last manual Audi sport sedan ever, last manual S).
I cross shopped the Panamera and the cls550. I ended up with the cls for no other reason than cost. At the time there was about a 10k difference between the two. I also liked the heavier more bank vault feel of the Merc.
If you want a manual Panamera I think it is a one year only car. I think it was the first year and it was a special order so finding one of these is finding a unicorn.
I just scratched the manual performance sedan inch with a e60 M5. I hope to put plates on it tomorow. Once you drive a f1 derived v10 with a manual you will forgive it for eating rod bearings and all the stupid other stuff. But as a second car it is absolutely worth it.
JimS
Reader
12/6/23 2:31 a.m.
I had a v6 Panamera as a loaner a few years back. Loved the thing and been wanting one ever since. Will consider one when we get rid of our Q5.
This thread brings up the feels for me because I've been stalking 971 Panameras lately. I don't have too much information other than Manual 970 Panameras are unicorns and I hear the 971 generation really fixed up a lot of stuff that the 970s had issues with. Pelican Parts and Rennlist are decent resources, as well as a few good guides via google though.
I have two friends with older Panameras, nothing bad has happened (yet) and they like them a lot. When maintenance comes due they'll both be sad. One was telling me about $800 oil changes at the dealer (why? why?).
Not a wagon (usually) and not AWD, but in that category I'd be scrambling to find a CTS-V personally.
As a Porsche guy and employee I give this thread two thumbs up 
The Panamera looks are personal taste. First gen has depreciated hard and I suspect near the bottom of the curve. From a reliability perspective, definitely the 6. Very robust. Not going to snap your neck but also not going to snap your wallet.
In reply to akylekoz :
That looks like a lot of car for $18.5K.
My concern about a car like this from any brand is while I can afford to buy one, can I afford to own one? Definitely more research would be required...
Wow. I came in to read all of the bad and ugly, and got... mostly good? Haha.
I'm glad to see/hear all of the feedback. I think I'm going to take the next step and, you know, actually drive one. I've driven several Caymans/911s/and even a GT3 on track as an instructor, but have never actually plopped my butt behind the wheel of a panamera.
Will report back. There's a dealer a couple hours from me with 3 models that all tickle my fancy for different reasons- A 4, a 4s, and a Turbo, all in various spots in price range... I'm hoping that with a stack of cash and a bank pre-auth, they'll let me drive all three back to back.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to akylekoz :
That looks like a lot of car for $18.5K.
My concern about a car like this from any brand is while I can afford to buy one, can I afford to own one? Definitely more research would be required...
That's the thing- I feel like these have depreciated way harder than most high power sports cars just because of the volume they produced them in... I'm only a little scared of the maintenance costs in the sense that I have the lucury of spare vehicles so I can take my time doing things myself if the wallet dictates at the time.
But even locally, assuming I don't want to Fly and Drive (I very much do), there are plentiful options under 100k miles for $20-25k, even some S's. A 400+ hp porsche for $25k is really, REALLY compelling.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to akylekoz :
That looks like a lot of car for $18.5K.
My concern about a car like this from any brand is while I can afford to buy one, can I afford to own one? Definitely more research would be required...
This is precisely why I passed on '12-'16 Cayman S pre-COVID.
When I had my $1000 BMW 2002 I was scared to buy anything at the BMW dealer because it was all based on the then new 320i . .
Check out how much normal replacement parts like water pumps , alternators , AC pumps cost and if there are German aftermarket parts .
They are really cool cars ,
Good Luck
I've driven a number of Panameras at the Atlanta Experience Center -- they are surprisingly fun and capable on track.
I think the major issues with 1st gen Panameras was coolant pipes on the V8 cars. At the thermostat housing, one of the pipes in glued in. It will eventually fail and the updated replacement parts bolt together instead of relying on glue. The repair requires removal of the intake manifold, so might as well clean up any carbon buildup while in there.
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/panamera/430375-coolant-pipe-repair-common-2.html#post4880874
dean1484 said:
I just scratched the manual performance sedan inch with a e60 M5. I hope to put plates on it tomorow. Once you drive a f1 derived v10 with a manual you will forgive it for eating rod bearings and all the stupid other stuff. But as a second car it is absolutely worth it.
Dude I've been avoiding these for 8 years now but its one of the top 3 sedan I lust over. I would love to see a ownership thread where you document the experience plus the $.
I do support the Panamera purchase and maybe look at Cayenne's as well?
$25k-$30k could def put you in at least a P85D Model S Tesla with well under 100k miles.
yupididit said:
I do support the Panamera purchase and maybe look at Cayenne's as well?
$25k-$30k could def put you in at least a P85D Model S Tesla with well under 100k miles.
My man... I didn't know those have depreciated that much either. Thank you! Definitely clicks a lot of boxes too. It doesn't hurt that we just got a huge solar array this year too.
How about a Maserati? They sound epic and are prettier. :)
Top Gear did a fun comparison with them: https://youtu.be/RmeeF9ZtkCA?si=-SZ_NbO6ebu6QBLC
84FSP
UberDork
12/7/23 7:52 a.m.
My mechanic buddies tell me the achilles heel is a poorly designed coolant system that fails consistently, requiring a motor out full replacement of the same system that will fail again. Apparently they tried using polypropylene cooling components which got eaten by the Glycols. I'm told it is physically glued into the engine block and is a not fun job.
I had the same thoughts as you, super cheap hotrod turbo Porsche weirdness.
