Restoration horror stories: What to do you guys do first? Mechanical or Cosmetic?

I have a 91 BRG Miata that has been neglected since I bought it almost 10 years ago.   It's never been pretty, but it's always been reliable which was its downfall as far as getting in line for work.  I've done suspension work, roll bar, other minor things, but never the restomod that I had in mind.  It was a SC car back then, and doesn't really have any real rust.

I'm resolved to start dealing with it now, since a dead starter bumped it up the list as far as needs go.   Keep in mind I have a 2 post list.

Yes, I know I would be further ahead to just buy a nice example and ignore it for another 10 years, but that's not what I want to do.  I've been playing tetris with projects for the past few years to go get to this point, and I have a specific vision in my head of a really nice looking BRG/Tan with original seats (I have them), a mint interior (I have it) with Nardi wooden wheel (have it).   It's already on FM's full Vmaxx suspension with eurethane bushings, although the wear items could use refreshing (ball joints, tie rods, etc).  Cosmetically, every panel has at least one nasty scratch/bruse on it, but I've parted out another BRG so I have original fenders, doors, hood, etc., so it'll need a reshoot.  The windshield will be replaced.  I'm not going for ameilia island, but think more something that I'm not embarrassed to drive to work.

Mechcanically, I'm putting in a 99 NB engine (have it) with a small turbo (have it and most accessories), Megasquirt 3 (have it), lightweight happy meal clutch setup (have it), and flyin' miata's butterfly brace, rear end brace & Paco's frog-arm equivalents (have it).  I plan on making sure that the subframes and such are treated with Eastwood's rust encasulator/chasis black (whatever they recommend based on pictures). 

Based on my plethora of young kids, my lack of time and other committments, (schools, actvities, house, etc), I'm expecting this to take 2 years at least.

How would you guys attack it?  I'm thinking of pull all the mechanical down off it, deal with the underside and engine swap stuff, put all the stiffening in and then work on paint then interior.

Thanks for rainy day dreaming with me :)

mechanical first

then pull it apart to properly address structure and cosmetics

then put it back together

In reply to WonkoTheSane :

Pull it apart, paint it, interior first, then exterior. Reassemble 

What could you do in batches that makes sense so that it's driveable in between? IE-> rear end stuff, then suspension refresh, then motor stuff, then body stuff, etc...

Don't pull it apart on day one.

Decide how  "pretty" this is going to be so that you have a universal standard to work to. Are you looking for functional, factory finish or show quality on every surface?

Up on stands and go over the entire suspension. By this I mean drop the sub-frames and replace every busing bearing rotor caliper shock brake line en-toto. Bag and set aside the rebuilt sub-assemblies. Tidy up the finish under the car as best possible assuming the intent was never to sandblast and paint the entire underside.

Next I would yank the engine, gearbox and front sheet-metal. If re-painting the engine bay is in the cards, then now is the time to pull the wires and hard-lines and do so. Also a good time to find anything that needs painttouch-up under the fenders or bumper cover and tidy that up.

Put the fenders back on. Remove windshield and interior. Do whatever bodywork is required and paint the car.

Re-install the front and rear sub-assemblies

Re-install the drivetrain

Re-install the interior.

On my Miata refresh, it’s body, engine, suspension, and last interior. 

Restorations I blow the whole thing apart and do all the sheetmetal/fiberglass work and paint the interior and jams.  Then I do the suspension and put all that on while I send the car out for paint.  While it's out for paint I rebuild all the mechanicals.  When it comes back I assemble it and if needed send it out for upholstery.

You're looking at more of a restomod or as we old guys used to call them Hot Rod.  In that case I do all the mechanical modifications usually including electrical and plumbing then any body modifications before blowing the whole car apart and proceeding in the same order as a conventional restoration.

There's also the rolling restoration which is when you try not to take the car too far apart at any one time so that you can drive it occasionally to keep your enthusiasm alive.  In that case I recommend taking care of the stuff that bugs you the most in the order that you can afford it.

Cosmetic work is tough for me to do...   If I have an extra dollar or hour.. It's going into making the sucker faster or more reliable. 

Gotta be the wholistic approach. NoHome has the idea. Set goals, come up with YOUR order. 

Does the turbo need clearance? Any other welding need doing? Those should be near the top of the list.

The right way to do it is get it running and sorted perfectly, then blow it apart for paint, and reassemble, but who's got time for that?

Paint the engine bay some appropriate rustoleum or tractor paint, rustproof with appropriate cover paint, jamb it, get it running right on good bushings, etc, then paint with the windshield out, followed by interior and final sorting. 

The above is an opinion, and thusly, similar to both a nose, and a rectum.

bluej said:

What could you do in batches that makes sense so that it's driveable in between? IE-> rear end stuff, then suspension refresh, then motor stuff, then body stuff, etc...

Only very rarely is a drive and restore project successful* 

Now success can be defined in a multitude of ways but most drive and restore, while they may improve the appearance and operation of the car. Do not usually restore the car to new or better than new appearance.

That is understandable when you consider that careful, award winning restorations deteriorate as soon as they are driven. 

Make it drive. Make it turn. Make it stop. Make it GO. Then make it pretty. This is always my plan. The truck looks good in pictures but she’s pretty rough in person. I want it quick and fun before I make it pretty. 

In reply to frenchyd :

I've never had one that was unsuccessful

AngryCorvair said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I've never had one that was unsuccessful

Yeah, my own experience and almost everything I've heard is just the opposite of what you're saying, frenchy. Or at least what you're saying doesn't apply here. Restorations like that don't include added snails and engine management.

Reading between the lines a bit here for the op, my initial thought was I'd be worried about momentum. Easier to keep up w/ more milestones that keep the vehicle functional in between. Granted, that may mean more time overall than if you think you can keep the momentum going otherwise.

I'm thinking about doing the interior and exterior of the SVT and punting.  It's been mentioned here before that if you're selling a lot of buyers don't care what you've done under the skin.  Shiny object syndrome.  I'd be honest about what I've found under the skin but give it a polish and get it gone.  

Then there's the other angle I've heard that it's motivating to work on a clean shiny car as opposed to something that resembles a turd. 

Make it run.

Make it safe.

Make it pretty.

When I was doing my '52 Dodge truck, I was out there every night but felt like I was just spinning my wheels, going nowhere!  A friend that has a body shop stopped by and suggested "Pull a fender, make it right, prime it, set it aside.  Do something else, finish it.  Small bites. 

Worked.

Sounds like most of you guys are of the same opinion of the project as I was; underside, mechanical, body, interior.  Thanks for the discussion.

Just to clarify, when I said I "wasn't looking for ameila island," I meant that this will be a fair weather cruiser, I may even take it on track occasionally, but I have a spec miata for routine track work.  I've never been to a car show, and I probably won't have time to start for the next 15 years or so.  This is not a nut-and-bolt-perfect restoration.

As far as return on investment/plans of selling it after resto-modding, there aren't any.  I've had the car for 10 years, and although it drives less than 3k miles a year at this point, I don't see me getting rid of it any time soon.  I have the space, it's not going to be worth anything "real" any time soon anyway, so I'm planning on keeping it for a good long time.  As does everyone who embarks on these crazy/stupid adventures :)

There will be no "sending the car out," I've painted a few cars and gotten good enough results that I'm comfortable doing it again.  I was just going to shoot it single-stage Mazda BRG again, so nothing exotic or hard.

Nothing will kill a project quicker than a car you can't drive. 

Appleseed said:

Nothing will kill a project quicker than a car you can't drive. 

I don't see that as a possibility.  I expect that optimistically the engine swap and standalone install is going to take me 3 to 6 months.  Yes, I've done it in the pits at a Champ race in less than 3 hours too.. But I don't get 3 hours consecutively anymore.

Luckily my wife already veto'd the "sell and buy a cleaner one" approach since "It wouldn't be the same, and you've been preparing to restore that thing for almost a decade."   There's also a bit of history with the car that cements it further.

I tend to tear a car apart, do a mass ordering of bits I need for restoration, send out whatever mehcanical assemblies need to be done by third parties and look at the body while I am waiting. There are often areas that would be hard to get at with the car fuly assembled that need some attention, whether for derustification, or just stripping and painting. 

Then you have a clean platform to start bolting things back onto, minus perhaps the final exterior paint job.

Do ourself a favour, though. If you haven't refurbished/restored a Miata before, take the subassemblies as you take them off the car, and photograph them on the car, off the car and as far disassembled as you get them before sending out for third party work.  And get a whole bunch of cotainers (I was partial to large milk cartons with the tops cut off) to put bolts in and label where they came from.

Gawd - this discussion reminds me of whay I have retired from doing this - and I used to be able to turn a car out in around 3 months when I was young, working on my own (who needed sleep at that age?).

I agree with doing it in project areas. If you need to do the front bushings, do all the front suspension work that it needs and paint everything while it's apart if needed.  Don't let project creep take over.  Plan a project, do it, and then get it drivable again ASAP. Being down for a few weeks (or months, for something like the engine swap) at a time is one thing, being down for a year makes me forget why I care about the car in the first place. You have to keep it alive so it can sing to you. Along those same lines, it there's a small item that keeps it from driving (starter), fix that but don't make it a larger project if it can be solo'd. Maximize your drivable days.

I mean, sure, if you were really doing an Amelia Island level restoration, it makes sense to completely strip it, but that's not the goal. 

Mechanical first because i can do that myself. My wagon is a driveable project but it's not close too ready for paint and I'm ok with that. I don't want to end up like my boss who's nova just finished 5 years on a rotisserie with him replacing panels in between paying jobs. I fear a non running just sitting project.

I went with the "mechanical first" method on my Trans Am project. In fact, I've been going that route since buying the car in 2002. Built two different engines for it since then while letting the body wither away. Now, I have an engine I built 9 years ago with only 1000 miles on it in the car that's acting up while the body is getting patched up. I'll likely have to go through the engine by the time this is over, or switch to a third, different engine.  

Honestly, I'm not sure what is right. I've done it both ways with the same poor result!

Do the mechanical first. That way, when a problem arises, you can roundhouse kick the fender, vent frustration, and fix it later.

If you start with cosmetic first, you’ll need to invest in a punching bag or therapy. It’s more expensive this way.