Restoration question - terrible idea?

Double posted on the other board.

Long story made quite short:

I bought a house with my wife 4 years ago. We were pregnant with our first when I decided to buy a fixer-upper classic truck to replace my dying 90's econobox (not in the "I really want another car" dying, like in a "which gear will I get today?" dying) so I picked up a 72 GMC.

As often goes, it was worse than it looked. Needing cab corners, rocker panels, some floor repair and general body work everywhere.

I was driving it daily when we had kid #1. I did some stuff, swapped some parts (transmission, points to HEI etc) I got an interesting deal from a friend who wanted to help, and as kid #1 aged, I drove his 80's econobox and took the GMC off the road for a real restoration. I shaved the drip rails, replaced the rear end, learned a great deal about slinging filler, sanding it all off, block sanding, panel replacement, and generally got a lot done, and a lot taken apart.

Enter kid #2. I expected to begin working on it again as kid #2 aged, but the wife started grad school instead (and still working) and now she's pregnant with kid #3. I haven't touched it in about a year.

Everyone is out of work, right? What if I recruited an out of work body guy under the table, paid him $1000 and gave him a week or two to finish what I started? Not restore it, mind you, but just the bodywork. Bodywork, at this stage, can only be done in 6+ hour chunks that I no longer have. I can easily put the rest together an hour here and there at night when the kids are asleep compared to the monstrous task of pushing the truck out of the garage, removing the bed, putting it somewhere, replacing the cab corners and then putting it all back. That sort of thing would take months to accomplish and be 10x more complicated to do an hour at a time at night while the kids are asleep. If the kids have a bad night, the daily needs an oil change, the wife has a concert at night, it's all over for that night/week.

Either that or I wait another year before touching it again.

What say you? Terrible idea? Great idea? Know someone proficient at bodywork that wants to work for fun?

I want to get this thing on the road again.

Even tho unemployment is SLOOOOWLY falling, I think for awhile yet you MAY be able to find follks who MIGHT do this. I recently moved back to FL. and 2 different guys are advertising on CL that they will do painting/paint AND bodywork at bargain rates. 1 of the guys looks like he is doing this from his home (certainly not environmentally correct), not sure, tho.

It can sometimes actually be easier, to find someone who will do bodywork in barter.

Your ability to find someone will depend on how bad unemployment is in your area, how big of a pool of QUALIFIED guys willing to do the job "in blocks" there is in your area, and how much longer the job situation hangs on.

In bodywork more than anything you get what you pay for. A quality job will not be done in one week, even working 8 hours a day. The body guys out of work are usually not the best. When a shop owner has to let people go he will try to keep his best guys. To find a quality body guy go to lots of local car shows and ask around. See the work first hand at the shows and see how it holds up 5 or 10 years after its done. Find your guy, then have him finish to the point your truck is in primer ready for the final block. Then, and this is the hardest part, let it sit for another 6 months to let the primer and filler shrink. Then you can think about finding a painter to finish the sanding and spray it. Not many body guys can do really nice spray work and vice-versa. I know your goal is to get it done quick and blow it out the door but quality body and paint work can mean you'll get thousands more for the finished product. Lastly, depending on what you need, color choice, and what quality finish you want, a big chunk of your $1000 will be eaten up in materials.

Thanks guys - to be clear, I wasn't going to have this guy buy materials or spray anything. Just the rest of the bodywork. JD, you really think there's more than a week left of that for a professional? There remains: cab corners, rocker panels, roof panel, some block sanding on the drivers side door and fender, and some sanding on the bed on the inside. In that case, $1000 probably won't do the labor maybe?

I am not too worried about waiting in between bodywork and spraying, because I can assemble some of the other parts of the truck while I wait.

A week in time yes, but you need to factor in drying time. Bondo and primer don't set-up instantly. In a full shop you jump between cars as things are drying. Depending on how he manages his time you might end up paying him to sit around if you're not careful. Also don't settle on a number before starting. Get some quotes-even from real bodyshops-and pay on a piecemeal basis so either one of you can stop any time. The type of guy that will do this is more likely to dissapear for a week than one who has a steady job already. And whatever you do don't leave a stranger unattended in your house if thats where the work will be done.

A few more thoughts-do you have an air compressor big enough to do bodywork with? Do you have plenty of light? Ventilation? What will get covered in paint and dust if you do it at your house? I would rather pay the tow bill and have someone else deal with the mess rather than do it at home but maybe thats just me.

$1k to finish the bodywork you mention is probably not far off. Figure his time is $25/hour, you are buying 40 hours of his time. But getting it done in a week? No, I'm not seeing that. Why? The kind of guy you want is NOT the unemployed body beater, particularly if he asks for anything up front! Those guys unfortunately are generally unreliable heavy drinkers etc and will leave you right in the middle of a project. I know one guy who just walked off in the middle of a big job to go fishing for 3 days, never said a word to his boss. He then showed up the next Monday and couldn't for the life of him figure out why he was unemployed.

So you are looking for an employed guy to do it in his off time meaning nights and weekends. That will stretch out the time frame. At some point he may get sick of having no free time and could leave you with the truck cut all apart.

How about checking the local trade school? You bring the car there, they do the bodywork (it's generally an experienced guy teaching) at a much reduced rate compared to a body shop. I've seen some really nice stuff turned out of those shops.

Depends on if you want a show car or a nice looking driver.

If you want a nice looking driver, decent body work is fine. I would suggest supervising and popping in on it from time to time unannounced to make sure corners are not being cut. Bondo hides many sins.

If you want a show car, you want to take it to a shop that specializes in restoration work on that particular vehicle.

In reply to Curmudgeon:

yeah, the gypsy "$100 up front to get started" bodywork deal is a well-known ripoff. dude will show up with some bondo and "get started on the job" ie mix it up and slap it on, to prove that you can trust him with the $100 while he goes to pick up the other supplies.

Knew a cpl retired body n paint guys who worked part time. No generic POS rust buckets and no get it done yesterdays. There's prolly a few in your area, they'll prolly like that '72 project too as it's classic.

racinginc215 wrote:

tuna55 wrote: Enter kid #2. I expected to begin working on it again as kid #2 aged, but the wife started grad school instead (and still working) and now she's pregnant with kid #3. I haven't touched it in about a year.

Seeing how the third kid's not yours I say go for it. and don't let your wife know you refer to her as an IT.

Lol

I would NOT pay him a salary. Negotiate a contract price. As soon as you say $1000 a week for about a week's work, your supplier will send the wrong repair patches for the cab, or you'll get a batch of hardener that won't set up the bondo, or you'll realize that you also need a fancy unobtanium piece that adds three days shipping to the wait time.

Paying him salary might also give him incentive to take as much time as he can to finish. Giving him a contract price gives him incentive to do it. Not paying him fully until the job is done to your satisfaction gives him incentive to do it right.

I work in a resto shop.

Take that $1000, double it, then double it again.

There's your true cost.

Now go buy a finished truck for a lot less money and be much happier. Especially a 1972 GMC pickup. You can't throw a rock without hitting one of those around here.

Shawn

Trans_Maro wrote: I work in a resto shop. Take that $1000, double it, then double it again. There's your true cost. Now go buy a finished truck for a lot less money and be much happier. Especially a 1972 GMC pickup. You can't throw a rock without hitting one of those around here. Shawn

I think you're missing the point. I have this truck, and want to finish the bodywork., I have everything but paint and primer already purchased. Thanks for the advice, call me four years ago and let me know.

curtis73 wrote: I would NOT pay him a salary. Negotiate a contract price. As soon as you say $1000 a week for about a week's work, your supplier will send the wrong repair patches for the cab, or you'll get a batch of hardener that won't set up the bondo, or you'll realize that you also need a fancy unobtanium piece that adds three days shipping to the wait time. Paying him salary might also give him incentive to take as much time as he can to finish. Giving him a contract price gives him incentive to do it. Not paying him fully until the job is done to your satisfaction gives him incentive to do it right.

Good advice here, thanks.

fasted58 wrote: Knew a cpl retired body n paint guys who worked part time. No generic POS rust buckets and no get it done yesterdays. There's prolly a few in your area, they'll prolly like that '72 project too as it's classic.

So how do you find these guys? I presume they aren't surfing the 'gigs' section of craigslist...

Two places that almost always know someone:

Ask at your local kragenoreillyautozoneadvance. Find one with a commercial delivery department, which is most of them. They always have their finger on the pulse of who's working where and who isn't.

Ask at your local auto body supply house. Same reason.

curtis73 wrote: Two places that almost always know someone: Ask at your local kragenoreillyautozoneadvance. Find one with a commercial delivery department, which is most of them. They always have their finger on the pulse of who's working where and who isn't. Ask at your local auto body supply house. Same reason.

The rub here is that I don't have any contacts here - I do know the folks at the local parts stores fairly well, so I will try that, but I don't even know where the local auto body supply places are around here. Fairly new to the area (4-5 years) and I haven't had time to do anything (obviously) that would require their attention.

mr2peak wrote:

racinginc215 wrote:

tuna55 wrote: Enter kid #2. I expected to begin working on it again as kid #2 aged, but the wife started grad school instead (and still working) and now she's pregnant with kid #3. I haven't touched it in about a year.

Seeing how the third kid's not yours I say go for it. and don't let your wife know you refer to her as an IT.

Lol

you notice that he's not disagreeing with you that kid #3 isn't his, tigers perhaps?

digdug18 wrote:

mr2peak wrote:

racinginc215 wrote:

tuna55 wrote: Enter kid #2. I expected to begin working on it again as kid #2 aged, but the wife started grad school instead (and still working) and now she's pregnant with kid #3. I haven't touched it in about a year.

Seeing how the third kid's not yours I say go for it. and don't let your wife know you refer to her as an IT.

Lol

you notice that he's not disagreeing with you that kid #3 isn't his, tigers perhaps?

Seriously guys, bad taste, and not helpful at all. That's why I didn't bother to disagree.

tuna55 wrote: I think you're missing the point. I have this truck, and want to finish the bodywork., I have everything but paint and primer already purchased. Thanks for the advice, call me four years ago and let me know.

No, I get where you're coming from.

Even at this point in your restoration. See if you can find a finished one for about 4 grand, sell yours to make it as close to revenue neutral as possible.

Body work costs a lot, it's a E36 M3ty, awful job that nobody likes to do.

If you don't pay a good guy, you get E36 M3ty work that will have to be redone in another four years.

If you pay a good guy, you get good work but you may exceed the cost of a replacement truck.

Seriously, check it out. The economy isn't so great right now and a lot of guys are having to let their toys go for very little cash. It's a buyers market.

Shawn

In reply to Trans_Maro:

I've already done a ton of work to this that I'm not willing to give up. Not yet anyway. I'll look into it, though.

I paid an out of work body guy $1k to repaint my miata and fix a bunch of rust. Best $1k I ever spent. Turned out well.

amg_rx7 wrote: I paid an out of work body guy $1k to repaint my miata and fix a bunch of rust. Best $1k I ever spent. Turned out well.

Where did you find him?

Tuna, try the local car clubs and cruise events. These folks know who's who in the car community.

fasted58 wrote: Tuna, try the local car clubs and cruise events. These folks know who's who in the car community.

If I was back where I started life that would be easy. The fact is that I got started so quickly in the family making stuff here that I've not done anything publicly car related other than lemons, and I certainly don't want any of those guys doing my bodywork. I think I may drag the oldest to a car show this spring though, and maybe I'll try there. He was iffy on lemons, but Lemons is scary as a spectator no matter the age.