Rules Scheming: NA Engines Under 1800cc For RWD

Looking at a class with no minimum weight for any NA engine under 1800cc, what would you pick for a lightweight RWD option?  The lighter the better, the more out of the box HP and robustness the better, you know, the mythical cheap racing engine.

2zzge seems tempting although you don't see them mounted longitudinal very often.  What else?  Most of the usual 4cyl suspects are closer to 2000cc, and lots of the older small stuff doesn't have a ton of power potential.  Tell me about some engines I haven't thought about before.

What kind of racing?

Can you destroke the engine? Or do internal work to bring it from 2.0 to 1.8?

Peripheral port 13B?

Late VVT NB Miata seems like the best combo of availability, ease, cost, power.  No weird parts needed, 155hp.  All the good Hondas are too big or spin the wrong way.  

In reply to maschinenbau :

Rally.  No rotaries in this category but otherwise you can mess with the internals.

4G62 was 1.8L and came in RWD/4WD Delica-based trucks. Better as a turbo engine though.

The MZR/Duratec 1.8 is 1798cc, and there should be a lot of spicy parts available. That's all alumuninium. It'll bolt up to an NC Miata trans if you want longitudinal RWD.

The Honda R series 1.8 is 1799 cc and makes a couple more powers.

I would think that rally would reward a wide powerband over a high peak.

7age with formula atlantic type setup.

2zzge is a nice off the shelf setup but needs sleeved if you want to rebuild it. 

I'm sure any honda has a million aftermarket parts to support your build. 

I wasn't sure if your "internals can be modified" was meant to address this-can you destroke?

Was going to suggest a destroked 2 liter Duratec.  Or there was a 1.8l variant of the Chrysler/Mitsubishi/Hyundai engine, there may be spicy cams available thanks to the Evo X connection...

Mazda K8 V6 from MX-3 or Probe would be awesome too

Snowmobile engine. 100hp plus and very light weight. 

In reply to MrJoshua :

You can destroke, sleeve, whatever- the rules are open there, but for simplicity we should probably assume this is something to be kept pretty cheap.

Is there a cheap way to destroke the Duratec stuff?  Looks like the 1.8 variants were not that powerful out of the box.

I'm assuming motorcycle engines are a no?  Because if not the BMWS1000R, Ducati V4, and ZX14R Kawasaki all have about 210 and aprilla makes a V4 with 220hp.  

In reply to nocones :

You can use them, but the transmissions are fragile and rally isn't easy on the drivetrain.  There was a pretty disastrous attempt at a bike engined Swift years ago iirc.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

What kind of car weight are you building?  The Crosscart folks seem to have figured out how to keep them alive and there isn't much cheaper even if you settled for ~180hp of the generic literbike from the last 15 years. 

But for car engines what about the 2ZZ?  Fairly affordable, fairly available, with oil mods should survive, all aluminum and around 180hp. 

How cheap can you find sport bike engines? Running 3x 600cc's (2R/1F) would be pretty amazing and give you plenty of redundancy.

Today I learned that the 1.6 in the Fiesta is produces more hp than the 1.8 Duratec.  Those cam phasers are magic.  One of those brought up to 1799cc would likely be pretty stout.  

For reference, the previously mentioned Mazda K8 is actually 1848cc, so that may put it out.  

In reply to nocones :

Extreme weight reduction might land a car around 2000lbs- rally cages are heavy.

I very much like the 2zz idea, not sure about transmission choices for mounting it longways.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

Thats pretty fat.  Yeah probably not best option for motorcycle.

Now the drive out of a RZR1000 Side by Side....

Does it have to stay longitudinal?  Why not mid engined transverse?  A 2ZZ Fiat X19 is basically a DIY Stratos.

Sorry I'm not helping 

jmabarone said:

Today I learned that the 1.6 in the Fiesta is produces more hp than the 1.8 Duratec.  Those cam phasers are magic.  One of those brought up to 1799cc would likely be pretty stout.  

For reference, the previously mentioned Mazda K8 is actually 1848cc, so that may put it out.  

That can also be cam choice. 

A 2.0 MZR Miata head on a 1.8 bottom end might be interesting. 

In reply to nocones :

Mid engine works but dust ingestion and cooling become real problems with all the important bits mounted that far back, not to mention the driving dynamics can get pretty spicy when you overcook a corner.  Interior space is also usually reduced, remember two people have to race in this thing for a couple days straight with helmets and tools and whatnot.

The easy button has to be the Duratech, already made in the millions in 1.8L form, massive, seriously massive aftermarket support and used in literally thousands of competition cars in Europe.  Every build pre-detailed from 'let's put the best OEM bits together for something cheap' to 'Throw your credit card at Cosworth and walk away with a a reliable 300hp soup to nuts in engine management and every conceivable transmission option you want inc integrated with engine management, flappy paddle, the works'

Hyundai's Gamma. 1.6 GDI makes 138hp. Turbo makes 201 from the factory. They can handle about 250 wheel on stock internals. NA they can be pushed to 130-135 wheel making them about 160-165 crank.