...of course ultimately the determination of whether it is safe or not will be left to the safety stewards.
But if they determine it is unsafe, then it should be a race of only 3-4 cars that have properly prepared.
...of course ultimately the determination of whether it is safe or not will be left to the safety stewards.
But if they determine it is unsafe, then it should be a race of only 3-4 cars that have properly prepared.
In reply to SV reX :
I'm pretty sure that's not correct. If the stewards determine it's not safe because water is running across the track. Even rains are overwhelmed in deep enough water. Elkhart Lake around 2000 they judged the track was unsafe although all the Indy car teams had rains and Indy cars race in the rain on road race tracks.
Even we Vintage racers couldn't go out and we all had treaded ( skinny) tires.
I see that Kevfry is sitting 3rd going into todays, Sunday race!
Give it all ya got, even if that means rain tires!
In reply to frenchyd :
I didn't say rains can't get overwhelmed. I said the safety stewards get to decide if it is safe or not.
Last I talked to him, yesterday, he said if they got rain it might be light and he didn't think he would run them.
but I just saw the forecast and am curious how he's feeling now..... (his race is at 2:15 I believe)
In reply to jfryjfry :
jfryjfry said:Last I talked to him, yesterday, he said if they got rain it might be light and he didn't think he would run them.
Why Sonoma?
The current forecast for Monterey says that the rain has mostly stopped and won't be back until after the event is over. I suspect for a damp track (with the usual streams across 3 and 9), the normal dry tires are the right choice.
Watching live and looks damp in some areas but I'd guess are running slicks. 15 cars all pretty tight. Didn't expect to see them out with 30 spec e46 cars.
Edit - starting to come down harder and some folks spinning.
Run the wets and laugh all the way to a win. You don't always win races on the track. Maybe the others will learn something about racing.
Results: Kevfry finishes #2. Congrats on the podium!
7 out of 15 cars stayed on the lead lap
Pole position car finishes 6th
#2 finishes #1
#3 finishes #2
I'm sorry guys but I don't see running non rain tires in the wet as a safety issue. It's up to the driver to drive within the limits of the set-up.
The following video is my friend following me in his Spec MIata (he catches me at minute 4:00) in the driving rain. My Datsun is on Hoosier Vintage TDs; the tires are practically slicks. I'm driving the car for all it's worth.
As you'll see, I'm sliding around like mad. Yes I have better than average car control skills but I'm guessing guys going to a National Championship event do as well.
At minute 17:30 cars on full tread tires start funneling by. There is a stark difference in speed as one would expect.
If I were in his shoes I'd run the wets. For the very short amount of time I was able to compete in Autocross and Rallycross ('03-'04) I ran both events with the same set of tires on my Impreza Brighton; Goodyear Weatherhandlers in 195/75R14 with a 640 treadwear rating. I was in H-Stock in Autocross on those hockey pucks when most of the field was on R-comps. When I got sick of the plowing understeer, I plopped in some crash bolts to dial in some negative camber up front. This put me in STS with Mini Cooper S's and Celica GTS's with camber plates, coilovers, swaybars, 7.5" wide wheels with 225 mm wide, 240 treadwear (IIRC) tires. I looked at a mid-pack finish as a victory. 
Not whining just making it clear that I knowingly competed at a severe disadvantage so, if I'm somehow able to get the chance to not be the underdog for once, I'll take it.
I haven't seen this argument yet, but as a California native- *It never f'ing rains here*, so to keep and maintain a set of rain tires and wheels, for an average dude, is expensive and mostly unnecessary. I wouldn't begrudge a guy for running them, if he brought them, but I'd wager the 'gentleman's agreement' came from the place of "mega drought" vice unprepared. National event etc, alters that substantially obviously.
Teh E36 M3 said:I haven't seen this argument yet, but as a California native- *It never f'ing rains here*, so to keep and maintain a set of rain tires and wheels, for an average dude, is expensive and mostly unnecessary. I wouldn't begrudge a guy for running them, if he brought them, but I'd wager the 'gentleman's agreement' came from the place of "mega drought" vice unprepared. National event etc, alters that substantially obviously.
I'd go with "racing is expensive," regarding a spare set of wheels and tires. And needing a tow vehicle, trailer, etc.
I can't see how an extra set of wheels and tires is a big deal when you have tens of thousands invested in everything else.
I'm not even really interested in an HPDE car anymore, because of the money/time factor. Maybe in a few more years I'll change my tune, I miss getting out on track.
Don't those cars run on 200tw street tires anyways? How much rain are we talking about? I've been racing 32 years, and can count the times I needed rains on one hand, and only one of those times was for 200tw street tires. I've raced a GT-4 car (GTLite now) on slicks in a very light rain. You need puddles or water running across the track to upset a 6/32nds 200tw street tire.
In reply to jfryjfry :
Did he run them?
racerfink said:Don't those cars run on 200tw street tires anyways?
Spec 944 has a spec tire, Toyo RRs in the dry and RA1s are allowed when a wet race is declared.
Didn't read it all but part of racing is being prepared to race. This is not NASCAR, and they run in the rain.
Sounds like some of the group are more prepared than others. Run them.
racerfink said:Don't those cars run on 200tw street tires anyways? How much rain are we talking about? I've been racing 32 years, and can count the times I needed rains on one hand, and only one of those times was for 200tw street tires. I've raced a GT-4 car (GTLite now) on slicks in a very light rain. You need puddles or water running across the track to upset a 6/32nds 200tw street tire.
I've done a couple of track days in the wet..........one on R888s one on worn RS4s, both were exciting as it was trying out. Great for car control skills.
SV reX said:In reply to jfryjfry :
Did he run them?
Did he?
nope
should he have?
yup!
All of the forecasts and Doppler had that area as clear for the whole race so no one had them. But it had started to get damp in the previous race and that race winner said, in his interview, that he credits it to his rain tires because it was starting to get slick. My brother's friend saw the interview and texted and called to tell him to put the rains on but he was already in the car and it was too late.
he did have some drama though as one of the e46's tried to pass him, got caught up on a slower car next to my brother and dropped back but the slower car spun out behind my brother and hit the e46.
the guy confronted my brother and was relentless even though my brother did nothing wrong, backed up by video. He then heckled my brother at the awards ceremony and had to be escorted out.
Sounds like he thought my brother hit him which he didn't.
it was a bummer that it was a cloud over his amazing P2!
In reply to jfryjfry :
The guy is a douche and glad to hear the escorted him out.
Congrats to your brother on a hard earned P2.
I'll let people make their own call. My brother posted the incident here:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RgYQYgWsk1M
go to 2:30 for the best view of it and then watch the beginning to see my brother's pov.
he left room on the outside but the #16 e46 driver apparently thought he should have left him more?
the race director told my brother that he was very close to dqing the bmw and that my brother had done nothing wrong. There is other video of him (after he passed my brother I believe) going into the dirt, coming back on track, swapping and then looping out, nearly taking out a few cars
I'm no expert, but it looked like he left plenty of room outside. Didn't look like he was anywhere near that 944 that was presumably on the outer real estate the E46 was about to use?
Congrats to him on the P2!
Hello all, this is Kevin, the brother in question 
I posted my whole race video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b13wxHn442o
Nobody ended up using rains as all of the forecasts were saying that it was going to dry up as soon as the race started. However mother nature had other ideas.
The race started barely damp and the dry tires worked great, then by the 3rd lap it got pretty damn wet and it was *very* slippery the rest of the race. You can see me slide a long way through the corkscrew. I was having a lot of fun with it though. I really enjoyed the challenge of relearning the track in the middle of the race. I think it plays to my strengths as a seat-of-the-pants racer, as opposed to a data-driven, rote memorization driver.
Just to be clear about the subject of this thread, the "no rain tire gentlemen's agreement" was never very serious I think. It was talked about on Friday a bit by some people. Then my racer friends w/o rain tires tried to convince me--but and I was pretty clearly against it for all reasons specified in this thread.
Then by Saturday I think everyone realized that it wasn't happening and left it alone.
Anyway for my first National's event I think I did pretty good and it's always a pleasure to drive (or ride) Laguna Seca.
(I'm in the green car in 2nd place here)
You'll need to log in to post.
