Rust Belt Forester XT's

Gents,

I'm moving from Hawaii to DC this summer and we'll need probably need a second car for the commute. I'm leaving the Midget in CA in storage until I can confirm we have a garage where we're going to rent, and wouldn't commute in the MG in snow anyway.

So this isn't much of a "what car" thread, as my threesome of goodness (E46 M3, CTS-V, and Forester XT) are down to one likely reasonable candidate. The whole point is to have a car I can drive to work if needed in the winter time and the first two options really wouldn't do too well (I'm a CA kid without much snow driving experience). I want something fun, and I figured the '04-'05 forester XT would fit the bill nicely.

So here's the question: I can get an XT manual (required) in CA or southern states for about $10-15K with anywhere between 60-95k miles on it. If I start looking in rust belt states, that number drops to $6-9k with maybe 110k to 150k. Now my WRX wagon has been an anvil, so I think the engine is going to be fine, but here are the follow on questions:

-is rust going to be a problem with rust belt cars? -will the crappy michigan roads (anecdotally) have beat on the car too much to make it worth buying? -How long will the stock turbo last unmodified?

Anything else I should think of?

Here's a couple from CA showing the range (LA one is drool worthy):

LA XT

Santa Cruz XT

NY XT

I can't find many more now, but I've seen them as low as $6k with 150k.

We bought a Forester XT new in April '04. It currently has about 84K miles. We've had virtually no problems with it and have no reason to believe rust would be any more of an issue than any other car. I have found none on ours. As for the turbo, I can't answer how long it will last, but have no reason to believe there will be any issues with it any time soon. Personally, I'd avoid ones like the NY ebay car. It's likely had a rough life, and for not really much more money, I think a lower mileage southern or western car would be a better value. Also, remember that TIRES ARE EVERYTHING when winter driving in these areas. All-wheel-drive, traction control, anti-lock brakes or any other gadget meant to aid driving are worthless if the tires aren't fit for the conditions. HTH and good luck!

I picked up a '98 Forester three years ago(in Buffalo) for a winter beater. It's a 2.5, 5speed, I paid $2500 when I bought it with 110k on it. Last week I had to make my first repair. The ball joints went bad. It's good to have a brother that is the chief mechanic at the Subaru dealer. It cost me $60 for parts and $40 for the hour of his time it took. As a bonus, he recharged the air for me. I have one small spot of surface rust on the rear quarter panel. I think junior scraped something and "forgot" to mention it. It just turned 150K and that's been the only repair I've had to do. In Spring, Summer and Fall, it's used to haul stuff. In the Winter, it's my DD. BTW, Long Island isn't the rust belt! Use common sense....just because a car is rust free doesn't mean it's been taken care of.

Thanks guys. Understood- common sense is trying to reign here, but rust is something you can easily see- often someone will take care of the car cosmetically but not mechanically or vice versa. I'm one who takes meticulous care of cars mechanically but not cosmetically and I don't want to end up with a turd.

Carzan- that's the type of info I was looking for. I'll concentrate my search on western/southern cars. Theres another one at a N. NJ auto auction:

NJ XT

Having lived in the DC area for 20 years of my life I never saw need for an AWD car. Maybe snow tires... maybe. All seasons will do fine and really aside from maybe two to five days a year you could run summer tires. Every year varies but the DC area really only sees accumulation two to five days a year. They have an over abbundance of plows but the traffic on days it snows will tie you up way worse than the snow.

I would not hesitate getting a CTS-V, M3 or M5 for a daily driver. Don't let the fear of snow stop you it really is a non issue. Its like buying a truck to pick up mulch once a year.

Great Greg. You are evil. I was all set to get a responsible vehicle too. Any recommendations for where to rent a place? I like the idea of transit, kids school and a garage... I'm looking at Falls Church/Alexandria/Arlington areas so far.

One place in Falls Church had a 24x36 garage but won't allow cats. I have an ex-marine friend who said he'd "take care of it" for a coke. I'm halfway there if I didn't think it would end in divorce.

Brust wrote: Gents, So here's the question: I can get an XT manual (required) in CA or southern states for about $10-15K with anywhere between 60-95k miles on it. If I start looking in rust belt states, that number drops to $6-9k with maybe 110k to 150k.

First, if you buy a CA car and move to a non CA emissions state getting emissions related parts will be a pain and expensive. Federal emission packages work fine and are cheaper. That could make up for a small percentage of the cost differences.

As for the Forrester rusting, I recently saw a chopped up one in the junk-yard. I noticed they run the brake lines INSIDE the car. This is brilliant. All winter cars over here need the brake lines replaced after a few decades as they rust away from exposure. I like protected brake lines.

Something does not compute: Commute from DC to Michigan?

I don't see a reason you couldn't run an E46 or CTS all year round. There are Porsches and Corvettes that do it in Ohio on all-season tires. It's not the car, it's the driver.

Rust is a problem with rust belt cars, but ultimately it comes down to each individual vehicle. Maybe grandma didn't drive her '81 RX-7 in the winter. My Ohio RX-7 was spotless; my Virginia RX-7 was rusted to hell... You should check for rust on any vehicle you buy.

Brust wrote: Great Greg. You are evil. I was all set to get a responsible vehicle too. Any recommendations for where to rent a place? I like the idea of transit, kids school and a garage... I'm looking at Falls Church/Alexandria/Arlington areas so far. One place in Falls Church had a 24x36 garage but won't allow cats. I have an ex-marine friend who said he'd "take care of it" for a coke. I'm halfway there if I didn't think it would end in divorce.

Where are you going to be working? If in the city try to find a metro station within walking distance of home, or a short bus hop. It WILL make your life a million times better, and reduce the ammount of miles your toys get. And the truth is when they do get snow it's plowed quick. More likely you'll see ice, and that's horrible to drive on even with snow tires. I second what Greg Voth says, get a toy and drive it on the weekends, commute on the train or bus and veg out for an hour instead of abusing the crap out of a car, the wrong way!

Those are all good areas. I grew up in Springfield. There are nice places and not so nice places in every town/city. If you have not been there you will soon find out that it all runs together. Woodbridge and Manassas (Prince William County) seems to have gone downhill in more recent years. My parents still live in Springfield, my older brother lives in Fairfax (near Fair Oaks Mall) both in nice neighborhoods. You probably know by now how expensive housing is. Housing prices, traffic and an offer at Grassroots convinced me to move out.

Depending on where you are commuting you should try to go against traffic if at all possible. I was a casualty adjuster and was driving around 40k miles a year in and around the beltway. If you can go manage to go away from DC in the morning and toward it in the evening you will have a less stressfull commute. I commuted from Springfield to Fairfax down the parkway every day, it was about ten miles and generally took 30-45 minutes each way.

Check where the Metro runs if you want to use public transportation. It all ends up being a pain in the butt any way you look at it.

The only Foresters (or other Subarus) that really seem to have rust issues are north of me (PA). Just junked one from Maine that was pretty crusty underneath, but that's to be expected. And, it was a '98, which is much older than any XT you'd be looking at. Anything south of the Mason-Dixon line should not be a problem.

I was reading and thinking.....DC? snowbelt? lmao!

Try Michigan, upper new york, etc

Grtechguy wrote: I was reading and thinking.....DC? snowbelt? lmao! Try Michigan, upper new york, etc

i know.. he also mentions NJ as a rust belt state..

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a NJ vehicle (based on rust alone), unless it came from the seashore.

personally.....I wouldn't think twice about taking an MGB out in 3-4" of snow.

There's a guy many of the CM folks probably know....John Twisty of University Motors (MGB Resto place near Grand Rapids) was driving an MGB GT year round up here.

get the caddy, snow in DC is a joke if it happens.

i'd drive a CTS-V year round and i'm in the snowbelt in cleveland.

I currently live in Western New York and grew up in Buffalo, but I lived in Northern VA for 3 years, 1 in Alexandria and 2 in Oakton, just a couple minutes from Fair Oaks Mall. There was measurable snow on 2 occasions, one of which shut the entire metro area down for almost a week. It was very funny to be the only car out driving along with a bunch of SUVs slipping and sliding everywhere; not so funny when I got to the grocery to find it too had closed.

Point being, DC/NoVA isn't the rust belt, it's south of the Mason-Dixon line, and it really is part of the South when it comes to winter or the lack thereof. I wouldn't hesitate to drive anything year-round with summer performance tires on it around DC, and thus wouldn't get the penalty box of a Forester when the Caddy or the M3 would do just fine.

I didn't mean to insult you "snow" and "rust" people- hey, I'm coming from Hawaii... anything else but here is the snow belt. I'm going to freeze my cajones off anyway. I've been there once in the winter and it was flippin cold and icy- hence my concerns with high powered RWD cars.

I'll be working at the DHS HQ across from American U. near Tenleytown. My bah offers about $2500/mo for rent, so I'm trying to do the best I can with that amount. I dig what you say about the metro- that's a high priority, but I have to balance that with my desire to have a garage and that's going to prove to be pretty tough. I also want to live pretty close-in to minimize commute time and I want to be a part of the community. I'm done with suburbia. I do have kids though, so I was thinking outside of DC itself, but close enough that we can hop a metro and check out the museums on the weekends etc. As I said previously I'm really interested in Arlington/Alexandria/Falls Church areas. Bethesda is certainly closer, but a little out of my price range as far as I can tell.

Brust wrote: I didn't mean to insult you "snow" and "rust" people- hey, I'm coming from Hawaii... anything else but here is the snow belt. I'm going to freeze my cajones off anyway.

DHS? BAH offering rent? I'm not understanding these acronyms.

Join the military, Son. DHS: Department of Homeland Security BAH: Basic Allowance for Housing

I'm quite sure there are some other less than flattering interpretations of the first.

You don't get anymore car advice from us until you launch a full scale attack on the airport screeners. Nothing but total obliteration is acceptable.

Greg Voth has your number. I live in Richmond which is shielded by the mountains so we don't get as much snow as DC. When DC does get snow it's not that often. Also, if it's over 7 inches I'll bet the city comes close to shutting down for at least a while. My advice, don't buy a car just to "get around in the snow." FWD will do just fine once the plows go through. AWD will help you accelerate and get you out of some ditches but that's about it.

I'd shop FWD if you're nervous. There are plenty of fun cars that drive the wrong wheels.

Also, traffic will be the bane of your existence. Its legendarily bad there.