RV - Class A vs tow behind (not 5th wheel)

In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :

Then it looks like maybe motorhome with a toad.  For the size TT you're thinking, you need a LOT of SUV.  I personally wouldn't even think about something over 32' without a dually, or at least a 1-ton SRW with some upgrades.  The longer the TT, the longer your wheelbase will need to be as well.  You're talking about a truck that might sit for 80% of the year unless you can deal with DDing a long, fat commuter that sucks fuel.  At least with a class A, it will also sit for 80% of the year and also sucks fuel, but you know that going into it.

The downside is additional maintenance, registration, and insurance with a class A, PLUS the maintenance, registration, and insurance on a toad.  At least when a TT is sitting idle, it's not costing you as much money and effort.

Do the math for your state.  Here in PA, trailers don't need to be insured.  They're covered by the liability limits of the tow vehicle.  If you want, you could of course add comp/collision to a trailer to protect your investment.  Registration for a trailer is about $32/yr, whereas a class A would likely be a class 3 or 4 which is around $300/yr.  Insuring a class A is a crap shoot.  Could be cheap, could be expensive.

In my world, I tow a lot, so it makes sense for me to DD a full size van.  If you don't have the need to tow, it might not make sense to have a big tow pig.

That was a lot of rambling, but put it this way... either way (these are true regardless of TT/SUV or Class A/toad) you'll have a large, fuel-sucking vehicle that rarely gets used, plus something to tow behind it.  In the case of the class A/toad, you have two motor vehicles and the expenses that go with it.  In the case of the SUV/TT, you'll have one motor vehicle, and one towable.

Is it possible to re-think the length of the RV?  35' is massive.  A 30' or 26' could be towed with a MUCH broader selection of vehicles that don't have 6 tires.

I don't know jack about the RV world...but, I did co-drive a Super C from Ohio to Gainesville and I found the Super C to be a wonderful towing machine.  The owner said he sold his toterhome to get this combination instead.  More living space and ample trailer space.

So, my little input, "is a Super C better an a Class A?"  

Super Cs are the gold standard for towing heavy, but you pay a large price premium over an equivalent Class A.  Super C was our first choice, but even in the 2000-2007 year range we were shopping they were 60% more than DP Class As from the same years.

Lots of good advice in this thread.  Go on the RV sites and do some research.  Pre-2007 seems to be the best combination of price/quality.  Our 2004 Holiday Rambler is far better built than most anything you'll find new on a lot these days.  Be patient... it can take a while to find just what you're looking for.

As most have recommended, you're probably going to get more for your money with a Class A/toad than with a truck/ TT.

Toyman! said:

If you are going to spend months at a time living in it, pay particular attention to the living space and storage. If it's not a comfortable place to live, you will find yourself leaving it at home. Lay on the bed. Stand in the shower. Sit on the toilet. Do all of the things you would do at home.

I'm going to quote Toyman again, because this is absolutely worth restating. 

We love our 26' class B+(or C minus the bunk over the cab) for traveling, which is what we bought it for, but anytime after camping for a weekend in it all the things he mentioned definitely come to light.

Almost hitting your head on the bathroom door getting up from the toilet, figuring out how to shower within the confined space, realizing you can't walk from the bedroom to the front of the RV if your partner is brushing their teeth, and the limited fridge & pantry space all become apparent when we're camped for more than a day or two.  

We still love it, and it's the right solution for us today, but someday we'd like to do longer & more casually-paced trips. I think we'll be looking for a Class A when that day comes. 

Rent for a few trips. 

Rodan said:

Be patient... it can take a while to find just what you're looking for.

This is worth repeating.

Buying one of these is a lot like buying a house. I didn't want to do a fly-and-drive. Since we will end up living in this for about a year, I wanted to spend some time with what I was looking at before throwing the money down. We shopped off and on for almost 2 years before buying the Endeavor. We sat on more furniture, lay on more strange beds, and stood in more showers than I have in the rest of my life combined. We shopped new, used, Class C and Class A, travel trailers and huge 5th wheels. I spent countless hours on the interwebs shopping and sending links to my wife. We even drooled over some $500k Super C and Class A rigs that were insanely nice. Then the Endeavor popped up at a dealer about 3 miles from my house.

We spent several hours with the Endeavor before buying it. Sitting in the chairs, the test drive, literally laying on the bed, pretending to E36 M3 shower and shave. Even down to pretending to cook a meal and watch TV. At that point, we knew it was pretty much what we wanted so we spent a couple of more hours testing every system. The fridge (didn't work), water heater, furnaces, heat pumps, jacks, batteries, chargers (house batteries were shot as were the chassis batteries), and on and on. I spent a couple of more hours learning everything I could about it. Engine, trans, common problems, and trouble areas to look for. The ISL400 had a recall for wrist pin failures, I got the serial number to verify that the engine was outside of the recall. They agreed to replace the batteries and fix the fridge. I agreed that the 6 yo tires would be my issue in another year or so. They agreed to a service and ceramic coating and we closed the deal. 

To piggyback on what Toyman! said, also strongly consider having a professional PPI done.  You may have to have one done for the 'house' and one for the 'chassis' depending on the rig.  Even if you do your homework, an RV expert is likely to find issues you won't.  As noted, it's like buying a house, and it's worth the investment, though not cheap.  Do not, under any circumstances take the word of the dealer as gospel on anything.  I used to think car dealers were bad until I started talking to RV dealers!

TIL I want a motorhome.  

Rodan said:

To piggyback on what Toyman! said, also strongly consider having a professional PPI done.  You may have to have one done for the 'house' and one for the 'chassis' depending on the rig.  Even if you do your homework, an RV expert is likely to find issues you won't.  As noted, it's like buying a house, and it's worth the investment, though not cheap.  Do not, under any circumstances take the word of the dealer as gospel on anything.  I used to think car dealers were bad until I started talking to RV dealers!

PPI isn't a bad idea if you aren't familiar with travel trailers and motorhomes. I will admit I did not get one, but I've been living with and working on travel trailers and motorhomes since the late 90s. I've fixed the appliances, resealed the roofs, rebuilt the rotten walls and floors, and replaced the worn-out brakes and suspension parts. I know what to look for. If in doubt, it may be worth the spend to pay a pro to do it. There are a lot of systems on a modern RV. Some of them are surprisingly complicated. 

One more thing. I do not recommend buying anything with a macerator toilet. They are an overcomplicated answer to a problem that shouldn't exist. I have already ripped all the wiring and stupidity out of the one in the Endeavor and replaced the overcomplicated control system with a simple rocker switch. 

You guys are a treasure trove of information! Thanks, I've been reading through this thread several times.

The reason for thinking about a larger one is we will be spending a lot of time in it. I would estimate about 100 to 150 days per year will be in it. It could be only 3 days in one session, or 30 days. I want some room for all of us to be comfortable and have our own space. For example, we plan to park it in Florida for 5 weeks straight. It would be nice to be able to hang out in it on a rainy day and not be on top of each other.

In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :

Makes sense, but you've still gotta drive it. The bigger the vehicle the bigger the wind sail, and the more stressful to drive. 
 

Rent one. Try it. 

SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:

You guys are a treasure trove of information! Thanks, I've been reading through this thread several times.

The reason for thinking about a larger one is we will be spending a lot of time in it. I would estimate about 100 to 150 days per year will be in it. It could be only 3 days in one session, or 30 days. I want some room for all of us to be comfortable and have our own space. For example, we plan to park it in Florida for 5 weeks straight. It would be nice to be able to hang out in it on a rainy day and not be on top of each other.

Depending on the RV you choose, be aware that you're limited to 50A, which means you're limited by the volume of air that two rooftop A/Cs can effectively cool.  Once you reach a certain interior volume, they install the biggest A/C units at about 20A each.  Getting a bigger RV doesn't mean you get bigger A/C because they're limited by the 50A service that the campground supplies.

If you buy a 30' RV and it has twin 7000 btu units, then go look at a 36', it will have the same twin 7000 btu units because they can't go bigger.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

FWIW, our HR Navigator has 3 15k btu units, and all three ran pretty much constantly on a 102*F weekend at the track on the 50A hookup with no issues.

13k btu or 15k btu are the standard AC sizes for most campers.  Curtis is correct that the units can have a hard time keeping things cool. 

That's where the higher-end manufacturers come in. Tiffins are 3-5 inches of foam in a laminated wall and roof. You can cool them on a 95 degree day with a couple of 15k btu ac units. The Endeavor has 3-5 inches of insulation in the walls and ceiling. It will stay cool with a couple of 15k btu AC units. Park it in the shade and one will keep up.  

Where you will run into trouble is in 30 amp coaches and TTs. My Tiffin was a 30-amp coach. Even with the amount of insulation, one ac (13k btu) would barely keep up on a sunny day. Parked in the sun and one end was going to be hot. A cheap travel trailer will have little to no insulation. It will be correspondingly harder to cool it. My son has plans to rewire my old coach for 30+20. He's going to split off one AC to its own 20 amp cord. That will allow him to run both AC units at the same time. 

If you are shopping for travel trailers you might want to look for what they call the artic package. It increases the amount of insulation and it also moves the tanks and all the plumbing inside the insulated envelope. That will make it easier to cool and also keep the plumbing from freezing if you are staying in it during cold weather. 

I will also add that the 50 amp service is much heavier than the 30 am service. 

The 30 amp service is one 120v leg, one neutral, and one ground. That gives you 30 amps at 120v max. Call it 3600 watts. They will melt down if overloaded. 

The 50 amp service is two 120v legs, one neutral, and one ground. That gives you 3 times the usable power of the 30 amp service. Call it 12000 watts. 

Go with the 50 amp service if possible.