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Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/22/16 3:42 p.m.

I pick this up a few months (6) back and picked up a Lincoln Pro Mig 140 this last weekend.

I'm wanting to beef it up before I put a deck on. My neighbor across the street used to work in welding supply and he recommended that I just use .035 flux core for this. The current crossmembers are 4 feet apart and I'm guessing 14 guage C channel. I'm thinking of putting 2x2x1/8 angle iron between each one so that my spans are 2 feet. This sound like a good overall plan? Any advice for a first time welder?

Patrick
Patrick GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/22/16 3:50 p.m.

I'd use .035 flux core too especially outside where wind can disrupt your shielding gas.

Is it wide enoughbetween the wheels?

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/22/16 4:00 p.m.

It's not quite wide enough so after I figure out the welding thing I'll make fenders so that I can drive over the tires.

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo SuperDork
1/22/16 4:13 p.m.

Time+Materials+New Tires/bearings/brakes/wiring = Sell for scrap and buy a proper car hauler

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/22/16 5:00 p.m.

That sir sounds boring as hell.

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo MegaDork
1/22/16 5:23 p.m.

What's the heaviest car you have in mind? What decking do you plan on using?

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/22/16 5:26 p.m.

I'm thinking it'll probably never have over 3500 lbs on it. The only thing I have over that is my tow vehicle. Decking will be 2x8s.

codrus
codrus GRM+ Memberand UberDork
1/22/16 7:08 p.m.

Keep in mind that there's probably 500 pounds of wood going into that decking.

Curtis
Curtis GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
1/22/16 7:36 p.m.
codrus wrote: Keep in mind that there's probably 500 pounds of wood going into that decking.

True, but RVs are typically pretty beefy. A 22' travel trailer might weigh 5000 empty with a GVW of 7000.

I'm saying, its likely that they removed 4000 lbs by taking the box off, so adding 500 for wood still leaves a lot of headroom.

Turning travel trailers into car trailers is usually a pretty straightforward thing since they often start pretty beefy.

Advice for a first-time welder.

1- spend many hours and a couple pounds of welding wire experimenting on the metal you'll be using. Flux core will not be as strong as MIG. The flux works by burning and making shield "smoke" instead of an inert gas. Often times if you cut a flux-core weld in half, it looks like pumice instead of solid steel since part of the flux gets trapped in the cooling weld.

2- inspect the other side of your welds. There should be a heat discoloration that is about twice the width of your bead. That means good heat penetration. Welds work by not only depositing molten metal to stitch the gap, but by melting the surrounding metal so it becomes one piece. If you aren't getting hot enough, it isn't tying into the surrounding metal well enough. Think of it like tree roots. A cold weld is like gluing a cut tree trunk to the ground. It only sticks in that one spot. A good hot weld is like the roots branching out and tying into surrounding metal. Find a heat that will blow through the steel, then find a heat that makes a heaped up bead (too cool). Go back 2/3rds of the way to the hotter heat and you should be good.

3- Keep a wire brush or wire wheel handy. The flux gets scaly and spits deposits on to the metal around. If you run a bead and then go back for a touch-up, make sure to clean it well first with the brush.

4- Don't make straight lines. That is to say, don't just strike an arc and draw a line in the seam. I like to hold the stinger up near the bend with my left hand and twist my right hand a little back and forth to make a wider bead and distribute the heat. Some guys go in little circles, some in figure-8s. Whatever works for you, do it.

5- Buy extra tips. Even with MIG, the tips get worn out. They're cheap. If you notice you're having trouble with a consistent bead, try changing the tip.

6- Keep a pair of side cutters handy. Sometimes if you get the stinger too close to the arc, it melts the wire onto the copper tip and won't advance more wire. Just clip the little ball of molten wire off the end.

7- Make sure the metals are super clean; no paint or rust. I lean towards using a wire wheel when I can. In some really rusty or painted situations I have to use a grinder. The theory is that using an abrasive disc embeds some of the abrasive material into the steel. Think of it like painting a dusty surface. The paint will dry, but it will only stick to the substrate in between the dust particles. Same for welding. I don't think its a big deal in your situation. I might worry about it on a rated-load beam, or a unibody repair, but heavy steel to heavy steel... fuhgettaboutit.

Fire extinguishers are nice. Have one.

Patrick
Patrick GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/22/16 8:47 p.m.

i was looking at this

http://mansfield.craigslist.org/grd/5348649698.html

i figure, what the heck it's as strong as a 36 foot 2 car hauler. then my wife saw me looking at it and yelled at me and told me to just buy the real thing.

chiodos
chiodos Dork
1/22/16 8:48 p.m.

Pretty much just clean off the rust and mill scale (black E36 M3) off the new metal with a braided wire wheel on an angle grinder and just take your time and learn as you go. Oh and don't clean with carb/brake cleaner before you weld, the chlorinated E36 M3 kills you. My only 2 cents to add

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo MegaDork
1/22/16 8:58 p.m.

It's fluxcore, if the metal is reasonably clean, you can see the puddle (auto darkening mask with darkness adjustment is good for this), and have some idea of what you're doing, you'll do well.

44Dwarf
44Dwarf UberDork
1/23/16 6:36 a.m.

How many lug bolts and what's the bolt circle? That will give you a good idea on the axle ratings.

If you have a Truck recycler in your area call around an ask about a truck box.

I built a nice trailer using a free RV trailer and a $600 24ft box. Nice thick mahogany floor and loaded with E-Track. Floor got sanded and polyurethane so oils would not soak in an stink. The box I got has a translusent fiberglass top so sun light keeps it bright inside.

Curtis
Curtis GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
1/23/16 8:42 a.m.

Oh... having done this before (and failed) I suggest this. RV frames borrow rigidity from the RV box. You might find it to be a bit floppy and twisty. I made a perimeter with 4" heavy angle but what I should have done is c-channel like you're planning and then a bit of trussing. I should have made a 6" high wall from tube to keep it from being so floppy.

Of course mine started as a 16' RV so it was never intended for a car hauler. I used it for brush, mulch, mowers, just a general farm trailer. But it was floppy.

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/23/16 9:52 a.m.

In reply to curtis73:

Thanks, that's the kind of hints I was hoping for.

In reply to patgizz:

Unfortunately I don't have a female voice of reason in my house. Sometimes it's missed but most of the time it leads to more fun.

In reply to 44Dwarf:

They're 5 on 5 and the axles are 2 3/8 inches thick so that leads to 3500 lbs rating.

Thanks for all the replies guys. Hopefully the welding helmets will be in later in the week and we'll get started next Saturday.

Patrick
Patrick GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/23/16 11:17 a.m.

make sure you and asa(i assume he'll be watching) are wearing long sleeves/pants/no sandals. you'll get nasty weldburn, it's way more painful than sunburn.

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/23/16 11:22 a.m.

Actually going to do this first try while he's at his mom's to see how safe it is but I appreciate the warning. I probably would have ended up with weldburn on my feet from sandles.

oldopelguy
oldopelguy UberDork
1/23/16 4:09 p.m.

I'll recommend asking you metal supplier for rolled channel instead of angle iron, it's what the trailer is probably made out of anyway. My supplier has it and for 4x1 or so is it's the same price as 2" angle.

My father's always used fewer cross members and 2x lumber on his trailers and they are all miserably heavy. On my trailers I use more cross members and 5/4 decking lumber and it's much easier to live with. In your case that would be two cross members between the ones already there, so 16" on center instead of 24". Depending on how wood prices are where you live the cost difference for the added metal might be a wash with the wood savings.

iceracer
iceracer UltimaDork
1/23/16 6:40 p.m.

As Curtis 73 said. some sort of "bridge" reinforcement is essential/

TRoglodyte
TRoglodyte UltraDork
1/23/16 7:53 p.m.

Removable fenders to drive on.

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/29/16 9:44 a.m.

I got the trailer weighed this morning and bought 100 ft of 2x2x1/8 angle iron. Trailer was 820 lbs and the angle was 165 lbs. If the wood stays under 500 lbs I'll be good to 6000 lbs which is way more than I expected.

Curtis
Curtis GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
1/29/16 4:47 p.m.

Keep us updated

wlkelley3
wlkelley3 UltraDork
1/29/16 8:14 p.m.

Know I'm late to the game but I would think X-bracing would make it more rigid. I too believe that RV trailers are strong but a little floppy. X-bracing or a single brace in each section going cattycorner (half an X) would get rid of the floppiness.

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/30/16 6:06 p.m.

I've thought about x bracing but not sure I have the time right now. I need to get this done by next Saturday to pick up a new toy.

First let me say that welding is berkeleying fun. I wish I had started years ago but honestly I was scared of the cost and the learning curve. I've probably got $350 in my equipment and supplies and the learning curve was real short. If anyone reading this is on the fence then jump in with both feet. There's nothing like watching metal melt in front of you putting two pieces together stronger than hell.

We got most of the front half done with a long lunch break and us alternating having fun with the welder. We found that the grinder did better cleaning than the wire wheel but that may be because my frame was so rusty.

Didn't get many pictures but this is an early stitch by me.

This is the back side of that showing the pentitration.

I'd like to think that we got better after that not only at cleaning the metal but at the welding itself. Thanks for all of the advice and help.

eebasist
eebasist Reader
1/30/16 9:24 p.m.

In reply to wlkelley3:

I'm not an expert, but I don't think thats good penetration from the backside. If you had good penetration I wouldn't expect to see the clean line between the two pieces.

If you have access to a A frame press or similar I would try welding some scrap and then us the press to pull it apart so you can see just how well you did. This is not the type of project you want to make mistakes on.

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/butt-weld.htm

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