Sammio Spyder 550, VW based

http://www.sammio-spyder.com/sammio550.html

I know I've beaten this one about to death, but these guy's have a new VW based roadster kit coming out this summer. I'm planning on ordering 2 of the Herald based kits next month. If any of you guys are interested let me know. I'm just trying to fill a container to keep costs down.

If its not a knock off of the Perry Spyder mold's for a VW 550 spyder then consider me interested.

I would need to see a body in gel coat pulled from the actual mold as well.

Is there nothing more local to N. America for this sort of money? Or do these guys have a real knack that makes the shipping and related issues worth dealing with?

I'm not in the market for such a project but I do think they're interesting and maybe some day...

I'd love to build a 550 replica, and a VW kit at this level seems a lot more price-reasonable than the others I've looked at. Sadly, price-reasonable and I-have-the-money are not related.

pres589 wrote: Is there nothing more local to N. America for this sort of money?

Not for the Herald based kit. That's what I'm looking buying. 6 kits will fit in a 20' container. $3000 divided up by 6 put's shipping costs to $500 per unit.

In reply to frankenstangsghost:

I was talking about the VW based 550 replica, I understand the issues with Herald based kit cars not being widely available here.

God, imagine building these set up for Subie power with 4x100mm wheels and a Miata front suspension crossmember built to the right width.

I don't understand why someone would build another 550 replica, rather than an RSK replica?

I don't understand why someone would build a VW beetle based kit of anything.

Woody wrote: I don't understand why someone would build *another* 550 replica, rather than an RSK replica?

Because three companies have tried do build RSK replica's and all of them have gone bust do to lack of demand.

I for one like the 550 much better. And I'd echo the complaint about the vw pan. If I were to purchase this, it would be just for the body so I could build my own frame and use the aforementioned subaru power.

man that RSK is gorgeous. But I have to agree with the E36 M3. I don't like VW pan cars like this should be bolted onto a tube frame.

the VW suspension was not horribly bad.. I think with a set of a-arms in instead of torsion bars and it would handle great

Teh E36 M3 wrote: I for one like the 550 much better.

+1

mad_machine wrote: the VW suspension was not horribly bad.. I think with a set of a-arms in instead of torsion bars and it would handle great

Have you ever owned a VW beetle? I've made about a dozen kits based upon the VW pan as well as a number of dune buggies. They were the only thing we had back in the day, but they are the reason the kit car industry cratered.

I have! But how would the original Spyder compare to today's standards?

In reply to frankenstangsghost:

I got this in an email tonight:

The 550 will be offered in a similar vein to the Sammio - a 550 style body and internal frame that the builder can fit out to their own spec...high or low !! The Beetle chassis needs to have its engine and box flipped round using extended spring plates and a shift kit ...same as the sand rails use. Our frame will support the body and the flipped engine . The pan will need to be shortened about 20'' in the same way as a SWB Buggy. I am happy to ship 550's as well...

carguy123 wrote:

mad_machine wrote: the VW suspension was not horribly bad.. I think with a set of a-arms in instead of torsion bars and it would handle great

Have you ever owned a VW beetle? I've made about a dozen kits based upon the VW pan as well as a number of dune buggies. They were the only thing we had back in the day, but they are the reason the kit car industry cratered.

had about 5 of them.. culminating with a 1974 Super beetle with a 2.0 Type 4 engine hanging out the back. It wasn't pretty.. but it was fast.

Stiffened up, the Bug suspension is not bad.. it worked well enough for Porsche for 2 decades.. and the Super beetle (front strut, rear trailing arm) suspension lived on into the 911/944 era

It's an ill handling, floppy beast that constantly stresses the fiberglass bodies put on it and causes cracking and breaking.

Rear suspension jacking does all kinds of strange things to handling and braking is marginal at best.

Ride height is a joke. You are in the stratosphere.

By the time you "fix" the ills you could have built a much better tube frame with none of the ills and have money left over to boot.

carguy123 wrote: It's an ill handling, floppy beast that constantly stresses the fiberglass bodies put on it and causes cracking and breaking. Rear suspension jacking does all kinds of strange things to handling and braking is marginal at best. Ride height is a joke. You are in the stratosphere. By the time you "fix" the ills you could have built a much better tube frame with none of the ills and have money left over to boot.

As someone who has built 5 or so VW based kit cars I disagree. They are a fine basis for a kit car that is small like a 550/356. Now start throwing something like a scale 917 body on top and they get a little wonky without reinforcement which is cheap and easy to do.

Oh man, that's so cool. I'm not normally one for VW based replica's. but I've always had a soft spot for these. GP buggies used to make Mayers replica's back in the 70's and 80's in the UK and they made a sort of RSK/550 based kit that went on a shortened VW floorplan just like a buggy. I loved them back when I was a teen and thought they were ubber cool. For a car like this I see no issue with using a VW floor plan, the car is meant to be a fun toy, not a perfect replica.

Oh, and to the Beetle handling naysayers, you better not tell Formula Vee guys how badly those components work or once they realize they'll have to slow down a bunch and increase their lap times.

racinginc215 wrote: wonder if it will fit on a Fiero then add Northstar then hoon the hell out of it.

engine height is too high, but a Subie engine or a Rotary on a VW trans would be killer.

whomever thought the VW pan is floppy needs to take a good hard look at one.. they are a sturdy base with a strong central backbone and several sturdy outriggers.. the pans only add some to the strength.

Most cars, if you pulled the body off and left just a chassis would be in the stratosphere.. Nothing reindexing the torsion bars and adding lowering adjusters to the front (or using drop spindles) can't cure.

mad_machine wrote: whomever thought the VW pan is floppy needs to take a good hard look at one.. they are a sturdy base with a strong central backbone and several sturdy outriggers.. the pans only add some to the strength. Most cars, if you pulled the body off and left just a chassis would be in the stratosphere.. Nothing reindexing the torsion bars and adding lowering adjusters to the front (or using drop spindles) can't cure.

The whole kit car industry and all buyers disagree with both you and weary microbe.

I've also built multiple kit cars and numerous dune buggies off the VW pan. I've done a whole lot more than just look at a VW pan. If it tweren't for the body (such as when you put a fiberglass kit car body on it) the pan would flex all over the place. With those flimsy glass bodies is quite noticeable when your kit car body begins to crack in unexpected places. The VW body is a part of the chassis reinforcement and when you remove it you remove most of the rigidity.

Over and over again people have spent more money fixing the ills of the VW (when you're looking at a performance vehicle and I'm presuming just about everyone on this forum would be) than they would have spent if they'd just built a tube frame from scratch and the tube frame would have been miles better.

The formula V guys get their oomph from low weight. Someone famous once said "there's no replacement for displacement". NO wait, that's the wrong quote. I meant Weight = Power. They also specify pretty small tires which because it doesn't "challenge" the chassis.

The Locost works well mostly because of the weight. There was just a discussion the other day on the Locost forum about how the Locost works so well mostly due to the minimal weight. They've even conceded that poor suspension design still works well due to - you guessed it - low weight.

this is true.. the pan is designed to work with the body for best strength.. however, might a lot of the ills of the vw based kits be cheap and thin glass as well? Having disassembled a few VWs.. including body from pan.. the body is not all that stiff either.

I do know that an improperly set up VW suspension will bite HARD. Even a properly set up VW suspension will bite if provoked.. much like an early 911.. you do not want to even think about lifting in a corner, or you will quickly find yourself going backwards through a hedge.

I do think you nailed it on light weight. Lack of weight does cover a lot of ills.To go back to my original post on this.. the rear VW suspension paired up with a good double A arm front would be a great thing for a kit car