SCCA Classes and Numbers

Started as a reply to the Cam thread but decided It was almost thread jacking. Here is a quandary, why does the class have to be 4 characters long? Why must it be "CAMS125" "CAMT125" This can cause some confusion for corner workers and timing people. Why not just "MS125" and "MT125"? I get that initially it was a marketing thing but it creates longer more numbers taking up more real estate on the car and opening up that much more chance for someone to screw up when recording times and penalties.

I have the same gripe about "STS" "STX" "STU", can't drop the second character unless you rename "STS" but "TS" TX" "TU" works just fine.

I've spent a lot of time in the timing trailer and fewer characters and numbers allow less room for error. I'd love Dave Hardy to weigh in on this.

Have the same problem with ~SP as a bridge between ~S and ~P?

Evil Ducky brings up a valid argument: When you're the one with the clipboard in hand, shorter class designations does make things easier.

David S. Wallens wrote: Evil Ducky brings up a valid argument: When you're the one with the clipboard in hand, shorter class designations does make things easier.

Especially when they don't have the proper sizing or colors that stand out.

Has to be legible from 50' away when the car is travelling around 50 MPH on track. the longer the designation / # of letters, the harder to read.

We just don't allow overlapping numbers between classes. Dump the letters all together. This obviously starts to suck with >100 entries and won't work at Nationals.

Forgot ladies class "CAMTL125"

"PCAMTL 125"; we offer a Pro index class and used to have a separate Ladies class, until they bailed for better things to do. I understand the theoretical need to break out CAM, but I see this getting out of hand.

We did have some confusion with kart timing since we have JK, AK, AKM, and KM classes (and they all look basically the same), but went to unique numbers and that seemed to solve the problem. I don't think we could do that for all of the classes though.

evildky wrote: Started as a reply to the Cam thread but decided It was almost thread jacking. Here is a quandary, why does the class have to be 4 characters long? Why must it be "CAMS125" "CAMT125" This can cause some confusion for corner workers and timing people. Why not just "MS125" and "MT125"? I get that initially it was a marketing thing but it creates longer more numbers taking up more real estate on the car and opening up that much more chance for someone to screw up when recording times and penalties. I have the same gripe about "STS" "STX" "STU", can't drop the second character unless you rename "STS" but "TS" TX" "TU" works just fine. I've spent a lot of time in the timing trailer and fewer characters and numbers allow less room for error. I'd love Dave Hardy to weigh in on this.

can't do that because lots of clubs have a "T"ire class

No way can the scca account for local classes when naming national classes, we have STO (Street Tire Open) (Might need to talk about dropping a digit on that one) which is out local catch all class for anything on street tires. Unfortunately it's a mix of new guys with crazy mods that don't for any other class rolling on all seasons, former CAM legal Z06's on "street" tires and purpose built cars on "street" tires. So the range is from uber fast to uber slow.

Our club hosts the LS Fest autocross and a Stock C6 smoked 90% of the triple digit builds, honestly a stock miata would beat 80% of them.

In reply to evildky: The SCCA had (or wanted) to divide up CAM so someone in a late model Mustang GT or a Saturn Sky couldn't wipe out all the Pro-Touring new guys. I imagine that the local regions may not need people to put the division of T,S, or C on the car, they will know that's their division. They can also make sure CAM competitors don't duplicate numbers if they do put 4 letters on their car and only allow double digit numbers. I don't have a gripe with the Street Touring classes with 3 letters because then you need to do the same thing with the Street Prepared classes. Plus, STS looks and sounds cooler than TS.

I've spent a lot of time in the timing trailer and fewer characters and numbers allow less room for error. I'd love Dave Hardy to weigh in on this.

I agree with you. The letters are simply class designators and I could give a berkeley what they are, shorter the better.

Not everyone agrees. Particularly at the national office, there are folks who see marketing value in the various names and associated lettering. Apparently it's easier to sell sponsorship to something called "Street Touring Sport" than something called "TS".

If it's an issue locally, you could put in your local supps the abbreviations that you want to run though.

another solution is to enforce the SCCA rules on number and class designations as to size, stroke, and contrasting color

I've worked course for yrs. and if the numbers and letters are done correctly I've never had any problem calling a cone in

If it makes you feel better, try reading just the number (much less the class) on any given rallycross car from any distance at all during an event. Covered with mud or dust, and the car is also leaving a dust cloud behind it half the time so if it cones while going away from you and you didn't look at the number as it went by, you're not gonna see it even if it's clean.

Half of our call-ins go something like:

Worker: "Plus one on....uh......that blue GC"

Timing aka Moxnix: "uh....Which blue GC"

Worker: "The second one of the three on the course right now.....I think Mike Golden. Or is that one Jim Golden? Dammit they're exactly the same car!!"

wbjones wrote: another solution is to enforce the SCCA rules on number and class designations as to size, stroke, and contrasting color I've worked course for yrs. and if the numbers and letters are done correctly I've never had any problem calling a cone in

Yeah, blue and lime green painter's tape will cover all regular paint jobs for competitors without Class magnets or paper labels.

we've found that neither the green or blue painters tape works worth a darn on a dark car … maybe the lime green will show up better, but the green that some of our folk have shown up with don't get the job done …

while it's hard to find … there is a yellow painters tape … with it and the blue, we're usually able to handle any color car …

irish44j wrote: If it makes you feel better, try reading just the number (much less the class) on any given rallycross car from any distance at all during an event. Covered with mud or dust, and the car is also leaving a dust cloud behind it half the time so if it cones while going away from you and you didn't look at the number as it went by, you're not gonna see it even if it's clean. Half of our call-ins go something like: Worker: "Plus one on....uh......that blue GC" Timing aka Moxnix: "uh....Which blue GC" Worker: "The second one of the three on the course right now.....I think Mike Golden. Or is that one Jim Golden? Dammit they're exactly the same car!!"

don't have that problem … I don't do rally cross

irish44j wrote: If it makes you feel better, try reading just the number (much less the class) on any given rallycross car from any distance at all during an event. Covered with mud or dust, and the car is also leaving a dust cloud behind it half the time so if it cones while going away from you and you didn't look at the number as it went by, you're not gonna see it even if it's clean. Half of our call-ins go something like: Worker: "Plus one on....uh......that blue GC" Timing aka Moxnix: "uh....Which blue GC" Worker: "The second one of the three on the course right now.....I think Mike Golden. Or is that one Jim Golden? Dammit they're exactly the same car!!"

Having worked in timing WDCR autox & rallyx events... yeah, rallyx is like the wild west.

irish44j wrote: If it makes you feel better, try reading just the number (much less the class) on any given rallycross car from any distance at all during an event. Covered with mud or dust, and the car is also leaving a dust cloud behind it half the time so if it cones while going away from you and you didn't look at the number as it went by, you're not gonna see it even if it's clean. Half of our call-ins go something like: Worker: "Plus one on....uh......that blue GC" Timing aka Moxnix: "uh....Which blue GC" Worker: "The second one of the three on the course right now.....I think Mike Golden. Or is that one Jim Golden? Dammit they're exactly the same car!!"

Is the solution a # flag that mounts to the roof of the car instead of using door mounted number panels?

Even a large rallycross has relatively few cars making it a bit easier to keep track but The dirt clouds can make identifying a car impossible with the best numbers. Welcome to the Forum Rich.

wbjones wrote: we've found that neither the green or blue painters tape works worth a darn on a dark car … maybe the lime green will show up better, but the green that some of our folk have shown up with don't get the job done … while it's hard to find … there is a yellow painters tape … with it and the blue, we're usually able to handle any color car …

One thing about blue painters tape and certain colors is that it becomes difficult to see through polarized sunglasses. I remember what appeared to be contrasting blue tape on an orange RSX, yet @ the corner with my sunglasses on, I could not see the numbers on the car. All of the other cars were totally fine though.

haven't run into that problem yet… I'll keep my ears open for any of the corner captains complaining about it

You just need to find better workers...

So, why the berkeley don't we ditch the Car class letters altogether. Three digits, no re-use, 100-199 range used for the second driver on two driver cars (two driver cars primary driver use the 00-99 range). Sort class out later/digitally. obviously this won't work for events with 1000+ participants

because sometimes an event is too large to do that

oops … I see you answered your own question