As I rack my brain for a car I can buy and enjoy while autocrossing in a street tire class I had a thought: CAM is cool for the folks with American rides but if you have an import and want to do anything interesting you’d better be ready to go to Street Prepared and run Hoosiers.
An import version of CAM is needed!
CIM?
I wish we could get American powered imports into cam. Then my miata would be in similar company.
My region (Steel Cities) has a class called STC (street tuner challenge) that is basically CAM rules for other cars... do what you want and run a street tire.
Other regions call it Classic Un-American Muscle... that acronym isn't as friendly.
In reply to collinskl1 :
Ours was STM. street tire modified, same concept.
Yeah locally we have RTU (Road Tire Unlimited) so people can run their cars no matter what but the PAX assigned to RTU (or STM or STC, etc) is 1.00
CAM classes actually get a PAX and it isn't a terrible one at that.
I fully agree there are too many classes and some of them need to be consolidated (how many classes can a Corvette run in, 10?) but to have a CAM and not an CIM seems kinda BS.
For the other side of this, Classic Muscle cars never had a good place to play in autox. They tended to be pushed into Prepared and Modified classes due to simple and common mods done to them. My El Camino was one, it ended up in CP because I did a 3-link rear suspension instead of the stock 4-link setup. Different engine than stock kept it out of SP and lower classes too.
Compared to the muscle cars, imports have way more classes to run in and be competitive. Now I don't quite get the new Corvettes being in CAM, they have good classes to run in already. Just my $0.02 worth. Edit: CAM was created to bring in new members to SCCA, which it did. A CIM class would pull mostly from existing classes/members.
KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:I fully agree there are too many classes and some of them need to be consolidated (how many classes can a Corvette run in, 10?) but to have a CAM and not an CIM seems kinda BS.
I've autocrossed with the local Corvette club a few times. They have a dizzying array of classes for Corvettes and then one for "metal cars". Which does not mean black vans with Rush murals on the side and trailer park Camaros, unfortunately.
I'm for the Un-American Muscle class. I dig it.
You can't say Classic Un-American Muscle without a chuckle.
Ian F said:CIM?
CIS - Classic Import Steel
A local region runs Street Touring Open. Same concept, anything can run it as long as it's on 200TW tires. I'd love that, as I basically have an STS Miata with a 245hp blower motor in it. Kinda outgunned in SSM.
I love it. I was just googling for SCCA CAM for Imports and get... A GRM thread from today.
I think there's an ethos to the CAM stuff that it makes no sense to limit to American cars. There are a bunch of updates that make sense to old cars in terms of modernizing mechanicals, especially suspension (and of course engine management, but that's not so CAM-specific).
I don't know whether we even need a new import CAM so much as to drop the "American" stipulation. Classic Street Supermod? CAM already distinguishes between a couple of different car types; not sure why country of origin needs to be involved.
EDIT: I want to underscore that last suggestion. That way we allow more cars with no additional classes. Unless there's a meaningful reason for the American part, why on Earth would we exclude cars? We all know that a Falcon or early Camaro is hamstrung from a chassis standpoint compared to even its contemporary BMW, Jag, or Alfa, but the nature of CAM more or less removes intrinsic chassis issues from the equation. CAM already has distinctions that more or less boil down to "average early stuff", "lighter cars", and "less-old cars".
There is or was Heritage Classic that older imports fit into. Sort of. Don't even know if it is still around. Came out after CAM did and didn't really seem to take off. Was mainly for old import race cars, old Stock imports didn't fit well.
SCCA classing always made me scratch my head. The club I used to be a member of used SCCA rules, but were not an SCCA affiliated club and my Mini, if classed by the book would've been in XP or something like that because I had a non factory cam and my engine was +0.060" over bored. Luckily, they let me run it in HS the first year when I ran on street tires, and then switched to GP the next year and ran slicks.
Just get rid of classes for the "run what you brung" crowd and run a percentage system. Gaming becomes hard for this because no one knows that the FTD will be.
Fastest time of the day gets awarded 100%. Give awards out in 10% increments.
Whomever, for example, gets closest to 90% of the FTD's time without the percentage going over wins that bracket. Stretch it out until there are no more bracket gaps.
There's a guy local that used to autocross an MGB GT. Was lowered with stiffer springs and non-stock carb plus a fewer other goodies on it. Classed in HS. I knew it wasn't HS but didn't say anything, considered the small mods as sort of an equalizer to the other cars in the class and still not completely equal. His driving made it almost competitive but he had a blast with it and that's all that counts. No one else knew enough about MG's to know it wasn't stock.
The Optima batteries Drive Autox series has just such a thing. 5 run what ya brung classes
GT (think CAM-C and any other 2 door 4 seat v8 car like newer M3's)
GTV (vintage stuff older than 19XX)
GTU (2 seat sports cars, mid engine stuff and anything awd)
SCB (sport compact boosted, anything without a v8 and boost, supercharged m3's, turbo civics etc)
SCN (sport compact NA, same as above but without boost)
It makes for pretty easy grouping and it's obvious what cars go in what classes. This being auto-x there are off course some cars with crazy modifications but many of them where no faster than stock versions of the chassis with better drivers.
My favorite was the 240sx with r34 GTR motor, sequential transmission and massive re71's
Our local group basically runs four classes: over/under a specific power/weight ratio, and 200TW vs no treadwear limitations. Makes it nice and easy. It wouldn't work in San Diego where 800 cars show up for an autocross (I've never been to a SD autox, that's just the impression I get) but it works well for our small group.
I always just assume I'm in the toughest class.
Ive been pushing for something like this in my local region. Tired of getting stuck in XP.
There is already way too many different classes and you want to add more?
In reply to fidelity101 :
Nope, I want to drop the American exclusion from CAM. More cars, same number of classes.
klodkrawler05 said:The Optima batteries Drive Autox series has just such a thing. 5 run what ya brung classes
GT (think CAM-C and any other 2 door 4 seat v8 car like newer M3's)GTV (vintage stuff older than 19XX)
GTU (2 seat sports cars, mid engine stuff and anything awd)
SCB (sport compact boosted, anything without a v8 and boost, supercharged m3's, turbo civics etc)
SCN (sport compact NA, same as above but without boost)
It makes for pretty easy grouping and it's obvious what cars go in what classes. This being auto-x there are off course some cars with crazy modifications but many of them where no faster than stock versions of the chassis with better drivers.
My favorite was the 240sx with r34 GTR motor, sequential transmission and massive re71's
Hey, I was pitted next to and raced against that car at the Finger Lakes SCCA Champ Tour. Technically beat it with my way underbuilt car too, after they broke an axle on day 1. Best part was being at the starting line behind them and watching it take off.
In reply to klodkrawler05 :
MCM built a similar car last month. Definitely gave me dreamy thoughts.
Why not just make parallel SM/SMF/SSM classes with 200TW restrictions? The local clubs around me have a single street mod tire class or an SP/SM/P Street Tire PAX class which works about the same way. Each one of the custom classes has more entrants than all of the official SM classes combined at every event.
If I had my way, I would replace street prepared with street tire SM classes. I get why the class is there from an organizational standpoint. It is hard to kill a class when the members have invested a bunch of money in it. On the other hand, why should there be a class where it is important to swap your dash out for an earlier year car to save 4lbs of weight.
Unfortunately, we can't put more cars in CAM because the cars in that class are too slow. An STX prepped BRZ with even a minor power increase would be too fast for the class.
ojannen said:Unfortunately, we can't put more cars in CAM because the cars in that class are too slow. An STX prepped BRZ with even a minor power increase would be too fast for the class.
Ding Ding Ding! The majority of CAM participants are not the few gnarly fast cars you see promoting the class. Most are way under prep and under driven for the open ruleset and the PAX is way soft compared to the potential because of this. Add in a bunch of imports that are arguably better suited to the sport in design and weight, you upset the balance CAM is trying to maintain and drive away the very people CAM is trying to bring in.
Many regions in Indiana have adopted SMS which is Street Mod Street(tire). In Indy, SMS is no holds barred on 200tw tire and the car must not be CAM legal. Biggest single class at most any event.
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