We had no rain until just as we finished up for the day and was grading the surface for tomorrow. So unless something happens overnight I would consider it a go.
In terms of how it was I have no comparative information since it was my first time there was a few ruts and stuff where "fluff" had stacked up but they were grading it before tomorrow
Yeah, the Susquehanna event today was cancelled due to course conditions (big rain yesterday), which sucked since it was going to basically be a preview of the East Coasts in MR, with me, John England, and Vaughn Michhie in the 924 all planning to run there (as well as Chris Nonack doing some rally car testing). I know Vaughn drove all the way down from New England before it was cancelled, and England just went to his local Ohio event instead. I didn't have an event to go to for testing, so I just went to Harbor Freight lol...
I got like 11runs I think?
Yesterday got off to a muddy start... (let me know if images no work)
Ah wow yeah thats a bit different. Was it still drivable?
Definitely. Just slow in some spots. Still deep into 3rd gear down the middle stretch though.
Thankfully 4WD ran first and cleared it up pretty well. It dried throughout the day. By the end of the day it was starting to get dusty again.
My best time was 73.4 I think for the full course (not sure how much it changed) I was pretty proud of that but one of the instructors said some novices were running 68s, but I talked to a lot of people that didn't seem to get lower than 71-72 and that was AWD on snows (we were awd but on all seasons) not sure about the RWD/FWD guys
On days when we've had a slippery course with tight sections, I've seen the FWD guys run faster than the AWD cars. They just hammer down, chuck it sideways and go through the tight stuff while the AWD guys are trying desperately not to plow a bunch of cones.
The FWD cars definitely seemed to rotate better. Is it just because they get more lift throttle oversteer?
It's probably because FWD has less on-throttle understeer than AWD does. You point the front tires where you want to go and you go there.
Craziest car I ever drove was a ZC-engined first generation CRX that was gutted, and on mud tires that looked like motocross knobbies. Was a crazy bad mud day, rallycross was canceled but the course was set up, so we had us some fun. I was launching that car in 3rd gear. You rudder the front wheels the way you wanted to go, you pushed the accelerator to the floor, and you went there.
AWD has the disadvantages of FWD and RWD. You get all the lack of front side-grip of FWD and the lack of rear side-grip of RWD, plus a kind of off-throttle binding between the two if you have any kind of center diff (which makes me wonder why people hate Haldex so much, it eliminates that problem with AWD). In compensation you get a lot more forward bite. This doesn't always result in a net bonus when things are really mucky and/or the course is very tight.
FWD has an advantage of being able to go in hot, throw it sideways and mat the throttle to keep it from spinning. RWD cars have to be a bit more careful to not send the tail out too far, AWD will tend to push (or will slide the whole car sideways right into the cones).
And yeah, I hear you on the AWD pains... Running the Jeep with no center diff (locked) is a PITA in tight spots. Either you carry enough speed to power it sideways or it pushes like hell (on or off throttle). On the more open spots, it's great. No stability problems, powers the tail out just like RWD, but puts down power well.
I felt like my buddies car took a while to get going also. not a lot going on below 5k rpm I thought the wrx had a more flat torque curve than that. To some extent when hard on the gas I felt like the steering wheel was just making a vague suggestion to the car
rslifkin wrote: And yeah, I hear you on the AWD pains... Running the Jeep with no center diff (locked) is a PITA in tight spots. Either you carry enough speed to power it sideways or it pushes like hell (on or off throttle).
Locked center feels to me like rear drive does. You can't turn unless you throw the car. Great if you're going fast enough to be able to throw the car.
Knurled wrote: Locked center feels to me like rear drive does. You can't turn unless you throw the car. Great if you're going fast enough to be able to throw the car.
Pretty much. Although I've played with kicking the Jeep into 2wd in tight sections. Doesn't put down power worth a E36 M3, but it's fun. Give it throttle while turning at all and the steering isn't straight and out goes the tail.
In reply to rslifkin:
More power has always helped my RWD car. My AWD car had maybe 80hp. Its twin is maybe going to have 400hp, I hope that is enough to allow it to accelerate hard enough to be thrown into tight corners so it can turn easily. If not, I can find a couple hundred more HP with a head swap.
I think heads would explode if I showed up to Nationals with 600hp.
Knurled wrote: In reply to rslifkin: More power has always helped my RWD car. My AWD car had maybe 80hp. Its twin is maybe going to have 400hp, I hope that is enough to allow it to accelerate hard enough to be thrown into tight corners so it can turn easily. If not, I can find a couple hundred more HP with a head swap. I think heads would explode if I showed up to Nationals with 600hp.
You feel like power makes a big difference for RWD? There was a straight 6 E30 there at the practice day and he just seemed to be drifting the whole time but not getting a lot of thrust
Edit meant RWD
AWD e30 (IX) are sloooooow and heavy. We have one that runs locally and all of the RWD e30s beat it handily unless it's a mud-fest.
Then again, the fastest rwd e30s also beat most of the Subarus that come out when it's dry....
Why do you think that is? Do the Miatas all beat the E30s ;P
Jaynen wrote: Why do you think that is? Do the Miatas all beat the E30s ;P
The only Miata that wins locally in DC is Shawn (moxnix) in PR class, and he almost always wins.
MR is where all the e30s are here, and a Miata has never won that class here that I can recall. In 6 years I think my record against Miatas in MR is roughly 30 wins and 1 loss (I DNF'd that one loss), including beating two national champions (Evan and John England). That may very well change in about 2 weeks at this event if John England drives well, but that is TBD until it happens...... So, take that with a grain of salt. Miatas dominate in some regions. Our region the fast RWD guys (other than Shawn) have e30s....
IX's are lousy cars for motorsports, though. Funky suspension, too heavy, not enough power, and kind of fragile. Great for winter street drivers, not for rallycross.
irish44j is not so secretly jealous of how fast Unicorn powered miatas are.
Its very difficult to compare RWD/AWD in many regions as they don't run in the same heat. Like autocross, the course can get faster/slower depending on conditions. Only in rallycross, that effect is huge, especially with a drying course. My first timed run yesterday morning was basically on par with the fastest AWD run from the morning. And it only got faster from there.
Again, part of the same argument... even if you get a 2WD car and you are 'faster', you aren't really faster. The times don't compare. If you want to have some competition, I suggest AWD w/ rally tires.
I'm a firm believer that with similar prep, AWD will be faster, especially if you have remotely wet conditions. On a dry course, if you mash the gas in 2nd gear in our 175hp Sentra, you will spin the tires at least 70% of the time. In 3rd it tends to put the power down pretty well.
moxnix wrote: irish44j is not so secretly jealous of how fast Unicorn powered miatas are.
I'm quite certain that your domination has only a small amount to do with the car, and that the results would be similar if you drove an e30, just as they were when you had a POS RX7 with no compression ;)
ProDarwin wrote: Its very difficult to compare RWD/AWD in many regions as they don't run in the same heat. Like autocross, the course can get faster/slower depending on conditions. Only in rallycross, that effect is huge, especially with a drying course. My first timed run yesterday morning was basically on par with the fastest AWD run from the morning. And it only got faster from there. Again, part of the same argument... even if you get a 2WD car and you are 'faster', you aren't really faster. The times don't compare. If you want to have some competition, I suggest AWD w/ rally tires. I'm a firm believer that with similar prep, AWD will be faster, especially if you have remotely wet conditions. On a dry course, if you mash the gas in 2nd gear in our 175hp Sentra, you will spin the tires at least 70% of the time. In 3rd it tends to put the power down pretty well.
not disagreeing, the fastest AWD guys are faster than the fastest RWD guys for sure, in almost any conditions. But guys in old e30s and Miatas regularly beat the bottom half of the Mod AWD entries at our events, runnign in the same heat.
But it matters not, since they dont' compete against each other anyhow.......all academic. RWD guys have more fun though ;)
Well we all know the key to Motorsport is accessibility, and with two younger kids (3 and 7) even more so the amount of time I can leave for a whole weekend or something is lessened. So I will probably only be able to run the THSCC events which tend to be an hour away for a while.
I do have a trailer I could camp in but then I would need someone else to bring whatever we were driving and there is still the family issue.
Without driving 2-3+ hours I am not sure any other groups are close to me
I'm not sure just how much power is really usable on a typical course. With a locked center diff, reasonably worn but still somewhat useful LSD rear and open front and 350-ish hp at the crank, I've never found a point on a course (even at 40+ mph) where putting my foot to the floor didn't lead to massive and immediate wheelspin (with ~4500 lbs of Jeep and driver pressing down on the tires).
Mind you, I wouldn't wish for less power, as the combo of being over-powered and having a slushbox means there's no "oh crap, I'm in the wrong gear and bogging" moments, there's always enough power to exceed available traction if I put my foot in it hard enough.
You'll need to log in to post.
