Seat belt extender liability- what would you do?

We aren't too good at solving liability issues, but I'll try anyway...

I have a company that provides transport to medical patients.

But I have an interesting glitch...

We use several 1st gen Honda Odysseys. They serve us well.

The broker we work for requires we provide seat belt extenders (for passengers who are measured in gross tonnage, instead of lbs.)

Honda has done a great job of shutting down the market and after-market for seat belt extenders for their cars.

They use a proprietary clasp, and I have never found an extender that fits.

I think it is a liability issue... Honda has decided that their seats and restraint systems have not been engineered for very large people, and therefore do not want the risk.

The geometry of the seat belt changes, and the proximately to the air bag does as well.

Most seat belt extenders are after-market products that have not been tested by the manufacturer.

So, my choices appear to be:

1- Don't provide seat belt extenders. This would be a breach of contract with my broker, and perhaps a Constitutional violation of the ADA. I might be liable if they were injured in an accident.

2- Provide fabricated seat belt extenders. These would be no worse in quality than any other after-market component. They might save someone's life. But I would have circumvented the manufacturer's restraint system. I might be liable if they were injured in an accident.

3- Yeah, there are other options. Buy new vehicles, get rid of the Hondas, refuse to ride certain passengers, etc. None of these options are very nice or feasible.

WWGRM do??

2 is probably the best option...could you have a Noble-style dual seatbelt system? Stock 3pt + aftermarket extendable 5/6pt bought from and installed by reputable racing companies for the "people of size?"

In reply to GameboyRMH:

I think I could have a an ENTIRELY different set of challenging liability issues if I tried to assist a 450 lb. woman in clasping a 5 or 6-point harness.

Although your basic idea isn't bad.

Get a flatbed wrecker

When I said "fabricated", I was considering buying a set of belts from a wrecked Honda (for the clasps/ latches), then having a good trim shop sew some extenders from good quality webbing.

Of course, if I make them and someone gets hurt, the liability is entirely mine.

Who pays the bill for transport?

Sewing seatbelts is tricky business. IIRC there's only one company in the US properly qualified to do it (can't remember the name, but it's a racing safety equipment company). I'd avoid that.

Have you thought about bolting in a longer belt/buckle set from another vehicle? Or a set that is comparable with aftermarket extenders?

ebonyandivory wrote: Who pays the bill for transport?

You do. (taxes, insurance costs, etc.)

If the only way is for you to keep the liability demon at bay is to use aftermarket extenders, then it sounds like time for new vehicles.

Discuss with attourney before proceeding in #2.

I am not sure, but there is a distinct possibility that a fabricated extender might be regulated equipment requiring testing and labeling. (see 49CFR pt 571.209) Requiring a lot of logistics (producing a tested part) and liability.

might try contacting NMEDA http://www.nmeda.com/

I figured. Not Fed money but State money no?

Aren't these obese individuals using wheelchairs? Don't you guys use E-150-350 vans too?

I'd be getting in touch with these individual's guardians and let them know. The State and/or guardian needs to ensure safe, individually appropriate transport.

ebonyandivory wrote: I figured. Not Fed money but State money no?

Both.

ebonyandivory wrote: Aren't these obese individuals using wheelchairs? Don't you guys use E-150-350 vans too?

No. We only ride ambulatory patients.

I do not know if this is relevant, but I've heard that one of the big problems with most 4/5/6 point harnesses in street cars is that the belts don't have a Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard number printed on them. One of the reasons I went with the Schroth setup that I've got in my rallyx car is that it's the one out there where they tested, applied for, and received a FVMSS number which is embossed on the belt. I've heard anecdotal evidence that wearing a harness without that approval is essentially the same as wearing no seat belt at all and you can get ticketed for it.

Would putting in an extender that doesn't have a FVMSS number attached be the same thing?

In reply to SVreX:

Have you contacted any chair-car builders? See what they do when they outfit the passenger vans when the get them in. Your situation can't be unique.

Are you sure you can't find extenders for that vehicle?

http://www.seatbeltextenderpros.com/odyssey/

and

http://store.moreofmetolove.com/seat-belt-extenders/car-seat-belt-extenders-by-vehicle/honda-seat-belt-extension.html

I sure as crap wouldn't be fabricating my own. No. berkeleying. Way. That will eat your lunch, guaranteed.

Does Honda not make them available from the dealership? I bought 2 for my Mustang when I brought it home, not because of oversized passengers but because they moved the seatbelt enough to prevent the shoulder strap running across my wife's neck. I would have thought that they would be required to offer something like that or THEY might be violating ADA rules.

Heck, I had an 88 Accord in 2000 that started having issues with the seatbelt coming unlatched. The dealership fixed it for free and told me that all Hondas carried a lifetime warranty on seatbelt parts no mater who owned them. Blew my mind.

A couple interesting links, including one company that claims to sell something that fits the back seats of '99-'14 Oddities:

http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/seat-belt-extender.html

http://www.4extender.com/

http://www.ifisher.com/disagree.asp

I'd guess you've already seen these, but just in case...

wae wrote: Would putting in an extender that doesn't have a FVMSS number attached be the same thing?

I'm sure it would.

I don't know about a ticket, but the liability issue is still there.

But that opens an entirely different can of worms. That would make ANYONE who uses an extender operating illegally.

If I weighed 400 lbs, I think I'd rather take a chance on be belted with an extender then riding unbelted. But I wouldn't sue anyone...

foxtrapper wrote: Are you sure you can't find extenders for that vehicle? http://www.seatbeltextenderpros.com/odyssey/ and http://store.moreofmetolove.com/seat-belt-extenders/car-seat-belt-extenders-by-vehicle/honda-seat-belt-extension.html

I've bought from them. They don't fit.

Ah, I'm starting to see there is something with the very early ones. Interesting and perhaps useful reponses from Honda on the subject.

http://www.ifisher.com/hondacontacts.asp

wae wrote: A couple interesting links, including one company that claims to sell something that fits the back seats of '99-'14 Oddities: http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/seat-belt-extender.html http://www.4extender.com/ http://www.ifisher.com/disagree.asp I'd guess you've already seen these, but just in case...

Mine are first gen. 1994-1998.

SVreX wrote:

wae wrote: Would putting in an extender that doesn't have a FVMSS number attached be the same thing?

But that opens an entirely different can of worms. That would make ANYONE who uses an extender operating illegally. If I weighed 400 lbs, I think I'd rather take a chance on be belted with an extender then riding unbelted. But I wouldn't sue anyone...

Unless they're making extenders that have gone through the process to get the right numbers stamped on them. One of the links I pasted up there specifically mentioned that they had FMVSS numbers for their extenders.

And, yeah, I wouldn't be worried about the ticket at all, just the lawsuit that came after an accident because you were using equipment that didn't satisfy the whims of DC.

What about this type?

http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/seat-belt-extender.html

When I was a Volvo tech we used to get the extenders from the dealership. Bummer that Honda won't play along