Because it is a modification to the OEM restraint system, and changes the geometry of the belts. It could encourage submarining. If someone was hurt because we semi-permanently modified the system, we would clearly be liable.
Look at it again, it doesn't change the geometry. It doesn't relocate the buckle, just adds however much to the reel portion.
In reply to foxtrapper:
Hmmm... you're right.
I had it on the inboard side in my head.
"Not everyone should be your customer" is a mantra that all business should subscribe to.This is both a road to success and a market that indicates you have succeeded:When you can say it and live by it, you have arrived..
Geico went down this road way back...Only perfect drivers over the age of 30 with new cars and perfcet driving records. To these people, they gave smoking insurance deals. This in turn sent the unwashed masses into the remainder of the insurance pool and drove up their overall cost, thus driving more good drivers to Geico.
Methinks that Honda has enough insight to know that they can focus the brand in a better light by "dumping" a visible portion of the market on the remainder of the market. No big loss to Honda.
Fact is, no matter what you do...
If you change something and someone gets hurt (if it was because of what you changed OR NOT), you are likely to get sued.
You might want to discuss with an attorney if there is anything you can legally do to mitigate this risk.
Everyone should keep in mind that businesses are held to different standards than persons. IE, in your own car you can yank out an airbag, if you do it as a business.. you have broken the law. That is why I suggested talking to NMEDA, they deal with the groups registered with NHTSA to be able to do modifications to vehicle safety systems.
I agree that a dedicated vehicle may end up being the only legitimate way to do this and avoid/minimize your liability. If a wheelchair user is being transported, they attach the chair to the vehicle in an approved (engineered & legal) way, right? (I don't know, but I presume this happens.) It follows that if one of your larger clients could fit in a properly sized chair, the chair could be locked into the vehicle and the client secured to the chair in an approved way. (Again, I'm presuming this technology exists.) Just because they DON'T normally use a wheelchair, nothing says they CAN'T use a wheelchair when appropriate, just like anybody else. This way, you aren't in the position of trying to extend the vehicle's existing safety equipment beyond the parameters it was designed for.
I also think you are on completely solid ground requesting reasonable notice (and reasonable extra fees) when a client's situation mandates the provision of specialized equipment. There's customer service, and then there's letting other people's casual behaviour put you in the position of assuming unnecessary liability and putting already-challenged clients at risk. No surprises!
For those that have suggested a dedicated vehicle, it can't work.
We don't know in advance who the patients will be, therefore every vehicle would have to be over sized.
A fleet of over sized vehicles is not an option.
I can't figure out how to post a link from my phone but there's a site called VCI mobility that handles equipment for paratransit buses and vans. They have long three point belts mad to go around a person in a wheel chair. Perhaps they have one that could mount to the mounting points in your van. I just looked a a belt on our buses and they are very long.
On their site look under wheelchair tie downs.
No is never an acceptable answer. This week I had acustomer complaint for not making a bus wait for people to catch it, and two for making a bus wait. Next week two different supervisors will come down and give me the same speech about why I was wrong in each case. After all if someone took the time to complain we must take it seriously.
You can't give anyone an answer to make them unhappy
Using the certified extenders linked earlier and having them installed by a certified mechanic is the only option. If you put them in yourself and something happens in an accident you are still liable.
moparman76_69 wrote: Using the certified extenders linked earlier and having them installed by a certified mechanic is the only option. If you put them in yourself and something happens in an accident you are still liable.
I agree that it is one of the BEST options (and probably one I'll pursue), but it is certainly not the only option, and it may not even be a good option.
Regardless of who installs it, it is STILL a modification of an OEM restraint system, and therefore a liability.
Apexcarver is right. NMEDA will probably refer you to your closest adaptive equipment dealer. You will want to find one that is a VMI or Braun dealer. Both companies do lowered floor conversions on Hondas and when I was in the business, we stocked seatbelt extenders for all the vans we sold. Buying from a dealer helps shift the liability and you will end up with a part that has a part number and is theoretically FMVSS compliant.
NOHOME wrote: "Not everyone should be your customer" is a mantra that all business should subscribe to.This is both a road to success and a market that indicates you have succeeded:When you can say it and live by it, you have arrived.. Geico went down this road way back...Only perfect drivers over the age of 30 with new cars and perfcet driving records. To these people, they gave smoking insurance deals. This in turn sent the unwashed masses into the remainder of the insurance pool and drove up their overall cost, thus driving more good drivers to Geico. Methinks that Honda has enough insight to know that they can focus the brand in a better light by "dumping" a visible portion of the market on the remainder of the market. No big loss to Honda.
This. I cannot agree more.
Keep a booklet of bus passes in each van and when a passenger is too big, offer them a complimentary bus pass.
In reply to windsordeluxe and apexcarver:
NMEDA advocates for handicapped persons.
I think you missed the part where I said all our passengers are ambulatory. They are not (usually) handicapped. They are not in wheelchairs, and we don't need accessible vans.
SVreX wrote: It was a bit of a hypothetical question. I wanted to see if the hive mind had any creative ideas I hadn't thought of.
Every other automaker, you call up the dealership and ask for a seatbelt extension, and they provide it free of charge. I'm a little surprised that Honda doesn't have a similar policy.
Pre-engineered and no-charge is admittedly not very creative, though.
Apexcarver wrote: Fact is, no matter what you do... If you change something and someone gets hurt (if it was because of what you changed OR NOT), you are likely to get sued.
May I clarify?
If someone gets hurt, you are likely to get sued by whatever insurance company is left holding the bag.
If you make any modifications, it is therefore in your best interests (in a CYA sense) that they are all done by best practices and, most importantly, engineered by someone else to do exactly what you are asking it to do.
SVRX, you have PM
The morbidly obese were "lumped" in with our customer base. Nobody else would provide seatbelt extenders or move seats. It is worth a shot to call one in your area.
SVreX wrote: In reply to windsordeluxe and apexcarver: NMEDA advocates for handicapped persons. I think you missed the part where I said all our passengers are ambulatory. They are not (usually) handicapped. They are not in wheelchairs, and we don't need accessible vans.
They aren't in wheelchairs but the conversion companies make the extenders you are looking for for many vehicles. If they make one for yours then you've got the piece you needed for accommodating your passengers.
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