Seats Swaps, Belts and Safety

My 1982 Datsun 280zx has pendulum style retractable belts.  They lock only with forward inertia, and they release immediately after.  I'm flying around the seat during spirited driving, and it might be holding me back at HPDE.

How are 3-point non-retractable belts on the street?  I'm not ready to go for a roll bar and harness.  Also looking at seat swaps like Miata seats, Sparco R100's or Cobra Monaco.  Can I even use a 3-pt with a fixed seat like the cobra?  Looking for opinions and experience here.  I also need to chat with the club I run with for their view.  Thanks

I had a Cobra Monaco in one of my Miatas and I was able to use the three point belt on the street. Buckling it was a little awkward, but I think that was mostly due to the mounting point in the Miata.

One thing to keep in mind if you are thinking about a Cobra is that there are only a few (three I think) dealers in the country and the seats come from England. They only get a few shipments per year. If they're not in stock, it can be a long wait for the shipping container to arrive. I know this because it took me months to get one last year. Summit lists an estimated arrival date, but that date keeps changing. They're great seats if you can find one. I have a new one in my basement, waiting for me to buy another car.

Maybe helpful, maybe not.

I seem to remember years ago, a device advertised in Road and Track that locked your factory seat belt.  Somewhat like this. You can loosen it so the belt functions regularly in a few seconds.

Factory belts on the track  are tough as they just don't keep you from sliding around. However fixed belts on the street can be dangerous, you can't move around to see around blind spots in the car or on the road. See if you can find something like wheelsmitty listed above or get some multi point belts for days you are at the track.

Fixed shoulder belts on the street suck donkey balls.   I had a set in a car years ago, mounted to the same bolts as the regular belts, with the shoulder harness running back to a plate I mounted behind the rear seat.  Wear the regular belts on the street, fold out the harness for competition. I'm sure something could be done in that way, although just adding a better seat might (will) gain you at least as much as a fixed shoulder harness.

 Autocross belt plus CG Lock and your set.

Works extremely well in my HPDE Malibu with Corbeau reclining track seats and my Dad uses them in his '07 Vette with factory seats and loves them also.

My Opels have non-retractable belts for the lap and shoulder from the factory and it's terrible. If the shoulder belt is tight enough to actually work than I can't reach the radio, and loose enough to actually drive it's only usable for meeting the letter of the law.

I second what oldopelguy said. My Opel GT has them too. It's 2 belts. Lap belt goes across and fastens next to the door and shoulder belt fastens next to the trans tunnel. Pretty much locks you in. I only use the lap belt when driving the GT but don't drive it hard. I've only been asked about it once several years ago. Once they saw I had a lap belt on they let it go. Some swap it out for a retractible shoulder belt.

When I autocross my Miata I twist the belt as it fastens locking the lap portion. But I'm running Corbeau seats that do a good job of keep me in place.

I was able to use the factory belts in my s2000 when I put sparco rev seats in. I had to use a seat belt extender and toured the lap belt portions through the seat holes. It worked out pretty well and the seat shape holds me in great. I only do autocross and street driving so I didn't want harnesses.

Also came to recommend a seatbelt locking clip. I like to use these whenever I'm driving a car with a 3pt belt in competition. The CG-lock is basically just a quicker and more convenient (but expensive) variant of the locking clip.

Just be aware that using them accelerates wear on your seatbelt. Nothing to worry about if it's just for competition use, but if you use them every day on the street, the effect will be noticeable (I used to just leave one installed on my Samurai all the time until I noticed the belt getting a bit fuzzy near where the clip went on).

1.  Move your seat one or two notches rearward.

2.  Jerk your belt so it latches.  Hold it taught so it doesn't release.

3.  Slide your seat forward, pressing your body against the belt so the latch won't release.

Also, check the Schroth website and see if they make a 4-point harness for your chassis.  No roll-bar required to install it.  It's reasonably tight.  If there is an accident, the harness has a mechanism in it that pops slack into the shoulder belts and makes it act like a 3-point belt so  you don't hurt your neck.  Or at least, not any more than you will with a 3-point harness if you roll the car and you're flopping around in there at 70 Gs.

Schrot crash-tests the things to DOT standards on a chassis-specific basis so you know it's kosher with your seat.  If they stock one for your chassis.

JBasham said:

2.  Jerk your belt so it latches.  Hold it taught so it doesn't release.

This is the issue with my belts, they don't lock unless there is inertia.  You have to be rolling and decelerating, or facing downhill.  As soon as you're not, they unlock.

Thanks everybody, good to know I can probably use a 3-point belt with a fixed back seat.  I am a bit disappointed that the fixed 3 point belts are so terrible to live with though.  I'll look into Schroth, the locking clip and see if I can fit a retractable belt from Wesco.

Also - does anyone have thoughts on seat swaps (like Miata seats) at HPDE's?  Do instructors balk at this?  I don't want to jeopardize anybody's safety including my own.  

And, I thought Corbeau's had quality control issues?  Like, didn't JG break one?

I'm personally not a fan of bucket seats with stock seatbelts anymore, but I've done it myself often enough and it can be made to work OK.

Re seat swaps - I think if you end up with a stock seat out of something and it's mounted properly, that shouldn't be an issue at an HPDE. Probably safer than a cheap chinese knock-off bucket seat...

The key is having it mounted properly.

My take - I would look at reclineable sports seats instead from a good brand. They're going to be fairly expensive but also more comfortable on the street and tend to work better with three point belts than a proper racing seat.

On Corbeau Forza seats: I'm 350 pounds, and my car can pull over a G with race tires on it. My first Corbeau was on stock rails that I adapted to fit the seat. I broke those. Then got a single-latching Corbeau mount. I then broke the seat, which I attributed to only being latched on one side, which probably put all sorts of crazy forces on the seat frame. Then I got a new Forza, and a double-latching mount. That held up okay, but it turns out that the right rear mounting "nut sert" was barely tacked in place. That tore out at an autocross, got welded in the field, and was okay. A little while later, the weld between the cross bar and the seat frame tube at the right front broke, and I fixed that, and re-welded some other welds. 

TL:DR  I've broken some Corbeau stuff, but I can't really blame it because I'm sure I'm out of their design specifications. 

On using a 3-point with a racing seat:  I've never had a problem with mine, but like I said, I'm real fat. The seat frame doesn't interfere with the belt's operation at all. 

On tracking with race seats:. Most tracks/sanctioning bodies require that the driver and passenger have the same safety equipment.