The fact that it sits. And only 500 miles last year. There is your answer. Yes it's a perfect car for that perfect day but those seem to be rare. Plus you enjoy your Integra so much. I get it. I've been there. I think take a bunch of pics in the next few months - you'll be ready for a BAT ad, you'll have pics for your memories and if anything changes, you'll have a few months to decide.
How are we feeling about the GR Corollas these days? There was a lot of fanfare when they came out but very few of them on the ground and I still don't know anyone that owns one. Are they as good as everyone had hoped?
Anyway, the OP is talking about moving from one uncommon/expensive car into a newer uncommon/expensive car that is also a possible future collectible. If you're not using the current one for all your dirty motorsporting needs, will you really use the newer one that way?
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:There are 3 cars I regret selling as of this point in my life. This will be one of those cars for you. GR Corollas are a new car which means you can wait to get one.
I think I've owned 37 cars in my life. There are a couple of them I sometimes think "I probably should have held onto that car", namely my NC2 Miata and my 2004 Mazdaspeed Miata. Honorable mentions to my old Focus ST (it was a better street car than the RS) and maybe my old Civic Si.
There is only 1 car I actively regret selling: my FK8 Civic Type R. I went thru hell to buy that car during Covid. I managed to purchase it brand new for $500 under MSRP. There was a caveat: I bought the car from a Honda dealership in Massachusetts. I soon found out why they were willing to sell it for under MSRP: Massachusetts is the only state in the lower 48 that doesn't issue temp tags and they won't release the car without some form of registration. I was literally never able to get ahold of the Massachusetts DMV during Covid... my local DMV wanted me to get a "vehicle/VIN inspection" before they would give me a temp tag... it took a while, but I finally spoke with a local agent that understood I didn't have possession of the car and needed to pick it up to do a VIN inspection... With all the delays and waiting on various paperwork, it took me almost 2 months to finally bring that car home. By that time, winter had set in, so I had the kind folks at Tire Rack ship a set of wheels and snow tires to the dealership in Massachusetts (loaded the stock wheels/tires in the giant rear hatch) that I used to drive the CTR home during a blizzard.
With a set of snow tires and the OEM LSD, that car was an absolute monster in the snow! I found myself pitching it back and forth on snow covered back roads, where it felt almost like a rally car! I was shocked at how good it was.
I finally got her home, tucked away safely with my S2000 (that is my wife's old ND1 Miata in the photo):
^^^It always blew my mind that the difference in curb weight between the FK8 CTR and the AP2 S2000 was only ~200 lbs, as their difference in exterior dimensions is massive. The CTR has tons of room up front, a legitimate adult-sized back seat and a giant trunk/hatch area, capable of hauling 4 wheels/tires across the country with ease.
Everything I read about the CTR was true. It really was that good to drive. It really was a car I would have driven anywhere at pretty much anytime. Such a fun machine! And it would have been extremely easy to live with, if it wasn't for one small (massive) issue I had...
Unfortunately, that was the shortest period of time I think I've ever owned a car. I have an old injury to my right knee (I've spent the majority of my adult life in what some might refer to as "combat related" professions, which come with some wear and tear and the body). Some cars cause me to have quite a bit of pain in my right knee... some cars don't. Unfortunately, the Type R was one of those cars. With none to test drive locally (dealers weren't letting anyone test drive them at the time), there's really no way I could have known beforehand. I modified the seat frame (not something I'm fond of doing on a brand new car), modified the pedal positions, adjusted the seats in every way imaginable, but no matter what I did, I couldn't get my right knee to stop hurting anytime I drove that car. Which led to me not wanting to drive the car. Which led to me selling the car for a small profit.
My only regret is that I didn't try removing the seats entirely and replacing them with aftermarket seats, to see if that helped. I suppose I didn't want to remove the OEM airbag seats on a street car.
If I'm being honest, pretty much every FWD-based Honda I've ever driven has hurt my right knee to drive. Something about Honda's ergonomics doesn't suit me well, at least in their FWD-based vehicles- even the Ridgeline caused me pain (damn shame, as I really liked that little truck!). My old FWD double wishbone Honda's included- but those were relatively easy fixes: I bolted an aftermarket seat to the floor, extended the shifter and viola, no more knee pain. In retrospect, I wish I would have at least tried that with the Type R.
Oddly enough, the S2000 always fit me like a glove and never caused me an ounce of knee pain. I can't say the same about any other FWD-based Honda I've ever driven.
One thing is for sure: I'll absolutely take my time and find a used GR Corolla to drive before I continue down this path. If there's any knee pain, the plan will be scrapped in short order.
Tom1200 said:There is only one question:
Will you drive the GR more than the S2000?
Undoubtedly, yes. Lots of scenarios a GR would get used for that I wouldn't use the S2000 for:
-Getting groceries or running errands.
-Driving in the snow- or winter in general.
-The occasional autoX (I had fun in CS a couple of years back, but there really is a substantial gap between the S2000 vs ND2 Miata... I would be curious to test the GR out in BS where it might be "the car to have").
-Hauling passengers/kids around.
I know reviews say the suspension is a bit harsh, so I'm not sure if I would spend much time on road trips with it (the BMW is likely a much better car for that purpose), but what reviewers view as "harsh" vs what I view as harsh are likely 2 different things. So the jury would be out on that one.
To be fair, I have a work car, so I don't actually commute to work in my personal cars. With that said, I think I've driven the S2000 about 500 miles in the past year (my records would indicate I've driven it a little over 1000 miles in the last 18 months, so maybe slightly more)... since August 2022 (a bit over a year- 14 months), I think I've driven the Integra about 5000 miles (I just looked up the mileage from oil changes/dates), so roughly 5-10 times more seat time vs the S2000. In the Xterra I've racked up ~1500 miles in the last ~9 months. I only bought the BMW about 6 months ago- in which time I've also racked up ~1500 miles (caveat: I didn't drive the BMW for the first couple months as I was doing a boatload of deferred maintenance/repairs to make it road worthy again- so it's closer to 1500 miles in 4 months of driving). I can't imagine not driving a GR considerably more than the S2000.
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:How are we feeling about the GR Corollas these days? There was a lot of fanfare when they came out but very few of them on the ground and I still don't know anyone that owns one. Are they as good as everyone had hoped?
Anyway, the OP is talking about moving from one uncommon/expensive car into a newer uncommon/expensive car that is also a possible future collectible. If you're not using the current one for all your dirty motorsporting needs, will you really use the newer one that way?
The folks over at Car and Driver thought it was good enough to include it in their annual 10 Best:
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a42244027/10best-2023-toyota-gr-corolla/
I plan on trying to take a used one for a spin sometime soon (there are a couple of used ones within ~50 miles of me right now). If they let me drive it a decent amount, I'll be sure to post my impressions.
To answer the question: no, I would not likely use the GR Corolla for my dirty motorsports needs. I can see taking it to a few autoX events, to see how she stacks up in BS (I suspect it would do extremely well locally), but no track time (if we're not counting autoX). The Integra is far better prepped for track work (see build thread- too much to list: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/the-teg-a-dc2-road-to-all-the-hondas-story/258401/page1/ ) and if it wasn't such a great street car, the 128i would be a much preferred place to start for a track car- it's seemingly very competitive in NASA TT5 and SCCA TT Tuner 4, plus, N52 motors are dirt cheap and easy to source. The GR would be solely used as a year-round fun street car, with the occasional session of dodging cones. I suspect it would likely become my most commonly driven street car if I go much further with the Integra's track car build (right now the Integra is still pretty street friendly on OEM ITR springs & Koni's, but I've been toying with the idea of running 11k/7k spring rates in the future via Fortune Auto 510's, which might make it less streetable).
The fact that I would be trading one uncommon/expensive car for another uncommon/expensive car is not lost on me haha. In a way, that doesn't bother me. I can surely sell my S2000 for considerably more money than I paid for it 4 years ago. I'm not big fan of depreciation. I have a sneaking suspicion that the GR Corolla won't depreciate much. It would be harder to sell the S2000 and buy a car that I know will depreciate drastically, losing (tens of?) thousands of my hard-earned dollars in the process.
In reply to roninsoldier83 :
Sounds like the GR would be a good fit.
When I do sell things it's because I am not using them. I don't like things that sit. I had a vintage MX bike that was sitting so I traded it off.
You like driving the Integra. I'm sure the GR is similar and turns certain aspects up to 11. You mentioned a few times and may be glossing over that you're not afraid to introduce some extra wear and character to the Integra. Whereas you want to keep the S2000 pristine. You'll also want to keep the GR pristine.
Automotive ADD is a real thing and you won't be making a wrong move unless you one day wonder where the topless car went.
clutchsmoke said:You like driving the Integra. I'm sure the GR is similar and turns certain aspects up to 11. You mentioned a few times and may be glossing over that you're not afraid to introduce some extra wear and character to the Integra. Whereas you want to keep the S2000 pristine. You'll also want to keep the GR pristine.
Automotive ADD is a real thing and you won't be making a wrong move unless you one day wonder where the topless car went.
That's a valid point. I've been keenly aware of the S2000's cult status and appreciating value (I can probably sell it today for $5000+ more than I bought it for, 4 years ago). The S2000 feels more collector car-ish.
I believe you're right. I believe I would also want to keep a GR fairly pristine to some extent as well. Probably not to the degree of the S2000 though. The S2000 never sees snow/winter time; whereas all of my previous "rally inspired" cars have been fitted with snow tires and spent quite a bit of time being pitched around in the snow! A couple of them even made trips up to Georgetown Lake in the winter for ice racing/rallycross on the frozen lake! The GR would absolutely make a trip to Georgetown lol.
With that said, I won't want to modify it, aside from wheels/snow tires and maybe a single sway bar to adjust the balance to my liking, or very minor bolt-ons that wouldn't compromise reliability.
The Integra is a different story. I wasn't terribly impressed with how the car was stock: the seating position was terrible for my frame (as was the shifter height), the car had way too much body roll, too much terminal understeer, the gearing was too long (especially the gap between the 1-2 shift), it could use some more noise and a bit of extra power was helpful at this elevation. Even from the time I bought it, I saw the Integra as a piece of clay to be molded.
The S2000 is very different. The seats/seating position and shifter are actually pretty good stock- no real reason to change them (other than the fact that I dislike leather). I think the S2000's suspension is just about right for the street. Surely a set of $3000 Ohlins might have improved upon it, but I didn't think I would really feel the benefit on the street. The balance is also very good- although it took me a while to get used to catching the tail-wiggle from the rear-end when you push a little too hard- which, I had a giant Karcepts front sway bar on the car when I was autoXing it, I dialed in a more friendly alignment and that never changed (the rear end of these cars just toes out under compression by design). The gearing is perfect for a fun street car and you're realistically not getting anymore power out of this motor without forced induction. Simple bolt-ons might shed a few pounds and make a bit of noise (the OEM noise is actually pretty good), but they don't make any real extra power.
I wouldn't have any problem with reversible mods on the S2000... I just didn't see any areas where I thought they would truly be useful. I've essentially made my Integra somewhat of a Type R clone; whereas Honda kind of setup the S2000 to be Type R-ish, stock. I considered a Science of Speed supercharger for a while, but that's a lot of money to be spent on a mod that wouldn't necessarily solve the core issue I have with the car: I don't drive it much. I'm not sure if a hefty dollap of power would suddenly make me drive the car more often. Maybe for a bit?
With that said, I would be firmly against mods to the S2000 that are not reversible: no drilling holes for aero/wings, no removing the OEM roll hoops to weld in a cage, no massive fender roll/pull to fit bigger wheels/tires, no cutting up the interior, etc. I would feel pretty similarly about the GR: if I found an area I thought it lacked something, I have no problem with simple bolt-ons, but no hard-core, non-reversible modifications- and I would likely leave the powertrain alone- Toyota managed to massage 300hp out of a 1.6L 3-cylinder, I feel like it's squeezed pretty hard as it is and wouldn't want to do anything that would compromise reliability.
I was having a chat with the wife last night about not having a topless car anymore. She's a borderline enabler (she has to be with my car ADD!) and she's always loved the S2000- but she prefers the top up anyway (long hair things). She won't complain if I put it down, but she'll struggle to keep it out of her eyes lol. If I'm being honest, these days, I prefer the top up as well- black leather in the sun equals me sweating like a whore in church. The only time I really put it down anymore is around sunset or maybe on a warm summer night. A while ago, I was actually talking about selling the S2000 and buying another cheap NC: 90% of the thrills for a fraction of the money with none of the pristine, collector car worries. I think if I ever wanted another roadster, there's a ~95% chance I would get another NC.
In reply to roninsoldier83 :
Good question. My 911 is a 991.1 with a PDK. This car does everything so good and looks good and fits me perfectly. I am more confident driving this fast than I was in the s2k. I sometimes miss the intimacy of a small roadster with a manual transmission like the S2k that I regret selling it. I'm thinking of getting a Miata to pair with the Porsche in order to satisfy that feeling. We have a Q5 for doing all the mundane stuff. In reality I just regret selling almost every car I ever owned.
In reply to roninsoldier83 :
After reading your reply to my comment this is what came through to me - S2000 is special there's no denying that. There's a compounding factor at play. You don't drive it enough to really justify it taking up space. It is a car to be redlined and driven in anger to fully enjoy. With limited seat time that kind of usage takes a bit to get reacquainted with and as mentioned a couple times you don't want to hurt it.
Let the ADD flow through you. Given the lack of usage I don't think you'll regret selling this time.
JimS said:In reply to roninsoldier83 :
Good question. My 911 is a 991.1 with a PDK. This car does everything so good and looks good and fits me perfectly. I am more confident driving this fast than I was in the s2k. I sometimes miss the intimacy of a small roadster with a manual transmission like the S2k that I regret selling it. I'm thinking of getting a Miata to pair with the Porsche in order to satisfy that feeling. We have a Q5 for doing all the mundane stuff. In reality I just regret selling almost every car I ever owned.
That makes sense.
Not to turn this into a different thread, but over the years, my wife and I have owned all 4 generations of Miata. The NC was my favorite. I actually made a thread about it a couple years back:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/ive-owned-all-4-generations-of-the-answer-the-nc-is-my-favorite/184551/page1/
If I was in your shoes, looking for a roadster to fill that void, I would be looking at an NC. I know its considered the ugly-duckling of Miata's by some (not me), but it was my favorite one to drive. There was an ergonomic issue I needed to address with it (via a cheap Goodwin clutch pedal spacer and a quick adjustment with a wrench), but afterwards, that car fit me like a glove! It has nearly the same amount of interior room as the S2000 (S2000's have slightly more headroom with the top up), but is somehow 300 lbs lighter.
When I owned my NC, that was the first time I talked about selling the S2000- mostly because I drove the NC far more than the S2000 (I suppose not much has changed). It's 300 lbs lighter and feels more tossable, less serious. The steering is hydraulic and a good bit more communicative than the S2000's EPS rack. Mazda Motorsports exists <----- I can't stress that one enough! I used to use MM for my NA/NB's- I've never seen such factory backing for any other platform! Endless actual OEM parts for wholesale prices! The shifter isn't quite as perfect as the S2000's, but it's honestly not far off. It's also not as twitchy/tail happy at the limit (easier to drive for ham-fisted idiots like me).
The S2000 has a good bit more power, but like you know, it's all above 6000rpm. Below 6000rpm (where most people drive on the street), I would probably give the nod to the NC.
I bought my NC2 for cheap when I already had an S2000 in the garage. I flogged that car every chance I got! Because the Miata community thinks of it as a "boat" (all 2500 lbs of it), it's not as loved as the NA, NB or ND- which helps keep the prices down. Because the NC is the least likely to become a collector's car, I didn't care about beating on it regularly lol. I figured if the motor blew, I would swap in a bigger 2.5L motor from a wrecked Ford Fusion for $500. Throw in a set of mild cams, a header and a tune and you're honestly pushing stock S2000 power-to-weight ratios, but with considerably more low-mid range torque.
I sold mine to fund my next track car. If there would have been any place to compete with the NC, I would have kept it and tracked it. Since selling it, the SCCA has now created a nice time attack home for the NC in the form of TT Sport 6. NASA has unfortunately nerfed the NC, as it's the only car they have listed that isn't allowed to compete in TT6, even though it's PWR would easily satisfy the class requirements. Which, I understand why they made that ruling- the NC is so good that it would render most other TT6 competitors irrelavent if prepped properly.
I'm actually shocked that the NC hasn't been utilized more in TT5 or Gridlife Club TR. I have a sneaking suspicion that if/when a K-swap kit is released, that might change.
For a fun street roadster, you might consider the NC. Or, if you fit (extremely tight for me), the ND. While the stock suspensions aren't horrible per se (the ND especially has far more body roll than I care for), I might leave a bit of cash left over for a set of coilovers, likely of the Xida variety.
There's a reason why the folks at Car and Driver put the NC Miata on their 10 Best list every year from 2006 to 2013, but the S2000 from those years (at least 2006-2009) was not included: much higher bang for your buck with the NC. After owning them both simultaneously, I concurred with their findings. If you need the high RPM VTEC howl, get the S2000, otherwise, save your cash and buy the Miata.
clutchsmoke said:In reply to roninsoldier83 :
After reading your reply to my comment this is what came through to me - S2000 is special there's no denying that. There's a compounding factor at play. You don't drive it enough to really justify it taking up space. It is a car to be redlined and driven in anger to fully enjoy. With limited seat time that kind of usage takes a bit to get reacquainted with and as mentioned a couple times you don't want to hurt it.
Let the ADD flow through you. Given the lack of usage I don't think you'll regret selling this time.
100%. I believe that's where I'm really at right now. Like a relationship that's run its course- you don't hate her, you've just grown apart per se. The last time I sold an S2000, it was for purely financial reasons, likely leaving me with the feeling of "the one that got away". This time, I just don't drive it very much, and when I do, I'm rarely in a place where I'm able to keep it on-boil and drive it in anger, rendering all of it's best attributes unused.
And you are correct, the learning curve of the S2000 is a good bit steeper than my DC2. I can get into the DC2 and pitch it around almost instantly- it's more confidence inspiring. The S2000 is a harder car to drive correctly, consistently. AutoXing it was a hoot, but minor mistakes result in being punished by the clock. I was far more consistent in my older Miata's, which are a good bit easier to drive at the limit. Not driving the S2000 for long periods of time (pretty much necessitated in the snowy months) leaves me rusty with this car for sure.
I'm going to hold off on selling it until springtime, so I'll have another 5-6 months to give it some thought, but at this point, I don't think I'm going to regret it.
EDIT: I actually almost forgot I made a very similar thread about selling the S2000 over a year ago... at the time I was thinking about selling the S2000 in order to buy another NC lol: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/i-might-be-losing-my-mind-im-thinking-about-selling-my-ap2-s2000-thoughts-from-the-hivemind/195927/page1/
Somewhat unrelated, I have read that the GR Corolla's suspension is harsh. I was wondering how harsh. I've only owned 1 car that after driving it daily for a year, I felt like it was too harsh for a street car, in stock form: my old Focus RS. Track cars with intentionally swapped stiff coilovers not included. I was surprised to find the guys over at Everyday Driver actually compared the GR Corolla to the old Focus RS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-qHmVdbH38
I'm relieved to see they mentioned the Focus RS was too harsh on the street, but said nothing of the sort about the GR Corolla. Which makes me think it might be harsh by some reviewer standards, but would likely fit my wants/needs pretty well. Some people complain about the S2000 being a bit harsh, but that's one area I've never really had a problem with.
Before I start making plans, I really need to try and take one of these used GR's for a test drive to see for myself. Regardless of what I find out, the more I think about it, I might just sell the S2000, even if I don't want to replace it with something else.
I was actually thinking NC so I appreciate your feedback.
I called a Subaru dealer about an hour north of me last night that has a used GR on the lot. I plan on making a drive up there to check it out tomorrow morning, assuming it doesn't sell tonight. I'll see if they let me drive it and if so, if I really love it enough to shell out $40k for it.
Although I also might go in an entirely different direction. At this point, I might just sell the S2000 and keep the money in the bank/invest it.
Or maybe look into a Ford Maverick- I loved that little truck the last time I drove one. If I went that route, I would undoubtedly sell the Xterra, knocking my fleet down to 3.
My wife and I drove a little over an hour north to drive a GR Corolla today. It was a 2023 Core (base) trim model, slightly used with 3500 miles on it. No Performance Pack (so no LSD's), which, for my purposes isn't really relevant. Long story short: I'm out.
It hurt my right knee to drive, so, automatic disqualification.
My thoughts:
-First, unless you're driving this car hard on a regular basis, I do not see the value in this car. This is coming from someone that used to own an FK8 Civic Type R and really wanted to like this car. I know this car has a very fancy AWD system that surely contributes to the price, but it costs more money than the FK8 Type R I bought just a few years ago and the Type R feels like a LOT more car.
-The seating position is rubbish- they're too high. It almost feels like I'm driving a crossover. The seats themselves are okay per se, although I wish the seat bottoms were a little bit longer (my thighs stuck out pretty far past them- I'm 6'2 with fairly long legs).
-The engine is a perky little thing! There's a smidge of turbo lag, but I didn't mind it in the least! Very strong midrange- the motor has a good amount of character and makes for a quick little car! It's not what I would call "fast", but certainly much quicker than my 3 "sporty" cars (S2000, Integra and 128i).
-I'm not a fan of the clutch. It's not heavy per se, but I find it very difficult to drive the car smoothly, despite over 2 decades of driving a manual (I currently own 3). I couldn't pull away from a stop smoothly to save my life! Same with engaging 2nd gear, I found it to be abrupt and jittery.
-The ride was a bit firm. Not as bad as my old Focus RS, so not too harsh for public roads, but probably firmer than my Integra and S2000. I can see it getting old if your local roads aren't terribly smooth.
-The shifter is, well, a clunky, unrefined piece. It reminded me of an old turbo manual Subaru. It's not a fair comparison, but it honestly couldn't hold a candle to my Integra, S2000 or even my BMW 128i. It is not a box that wants to be shifted fast and I struggled to find gates when downshifting. It's not terrible, but it's not very good either.
There's more, but those are the main takeaways I had after a ~20 minute test drive. Admittedly, it was mostly light to light, with a bit of freeway involved. There were no sweet canyon roads near by, so I really couldn't properly test it around corners... but it didn't matter, I learned what I needed to know. I understand that most of the money is in the powertrain and I would probably love it on a twisty mountain road... but around town, I would never exploit the car's strengths... and on a canyon road, I would likely prefer my Honda's anyway.
I should also mention that I drove my 128i 6MT up north to test drive the GR. Translation: I had just gotten out of driving a car that was better balanced, had a MUCH smoother clutch, much smoother gearbox, had MUCH better seats (I have the Sport package seats), was better balanced, rode smoother, makes a better noise, has better steering feedback (hydraulic rack) and has a better seating position. We're comparing apples to oranges here, but I'm trying to be honest about what my senses were attuned to by the time we got to the dealership. I should also mention that the little Bimmer has become my favorite driving machine since I fixed it for a reason. The GR Corolla is certainly quicker than my 128i (stock powertrain), but there's no doubt, I would prefer to drive my little E82 any day of the week.
Afterwards on our way home, we stopped by our local Ford dealership and drove a brand new Ford Maverick 2.0T AWD... good Lord I love this little truck!
^^^^Talk about a great candidate for a daily! My local dealer seemed to have at least 7-8 of them on the lot and the best part: NO MORE DEALER MARKUP!
I can't sing this little truck's praises enough:
-Peppy little powertrain (with the turbo, I can't speak to the FWD hybrid version). It's a good bit quicker than a tiny little truck thing should be. The transmission is smooth, responsive and does everything I would want it to do.
-Smooth ride on the freeway. I can't speak to the FWD version which has a torsion rear end, but the AWD version's multilink rides very well. I would have zero issues taking this little thing on a road trip.
-Great ergonomics. The fact that this thing is so compact, yet has a bed and so much room inside for passengers (the back seat actually houses adults) is pretty impressive.
-I dig all the little storage pockets and cubbies.
-I did take it on a twisty little road... it's not a sports car, but it handles much better than anything with over 8 inches of ground clearance has any right to handle.
-I really think this thing is the right size. Easy to park, easy to maneuver, great visibility, not too big but enough space to be not too small.
I am just impressed with the little Maverick. I know it's built on a crossover platform. I typically hate crossovers- I feel like most of them are designed for much smaller people (namely women)- their seating positions are always awkward for me, their seat bottoms are far too short and the seats sit far too high... but whatever Ford did to the Maverick, color me impressed.
When we got done test driving the GR Corolla, my wife's reaction: "maybe for $30k, but certainly not for $40k."
When we got done test driving the Maverick, my wife's reaction: "that's definitely a vehicle of yours that I would want to borrow" lol. That prompted my response of: "absolutely not, hahaha". She absolutely loved the Maverick. So did I.
My brother is far more of a "truck guy" than I am was checking out a Maverick recently as well. He currently has a Chevy 2500 (among other trucks) and he actually liked the little Maverick as well, referring to it as "the Miata of trucks" lol. I agree with his sentiments.
After leaving the Ford dealership on the way home, neither one of us could believe that the Maverick cost so much LESS than the GR Corolla. It felt like it was a lot more car. Certainly a lot more car for the money. I know most people don't cross shop vehicles like this, but it's nuts to think of the price delta between these vehicles after driving them. Maverick= great value. GR Corolla= I just don't see it- I'm pretty sure I would have to be on a canyon road or at an autoX to see it.
I guess I have some thinking to do.
Sell the S2000 for a Maverick? Or just buy the Maverick? Do you need a truck? Or just scratching the wanna buy a new vehicle itch? (Which is totally understandable)
docwyte said:Sell the S2000 for a Maverick? Or just buy the Maverick? Do you need a truck? Or just scratching the wanna buy a new vehicle itch? (Which is totally understandable)
I'm honestly not sure what I'm going to do. I was thinking about selling the S2000 anyway, due to not really driving it.
I have considered selling the S2000 and just putting the money in the bank or investing it. I don't really need a truck per se, but I suppose it would be nice to have. I have my Xterra and my wife has a Suburban, so we have kid haulers/tow vehicles. Maybe 1-2 times a year we end up renting a truck from Home Depot for one reason or another- not enough to necessitate a truck. My Xterra has some miles on it (around 147k) and has been fairly reliable, even though it's not driven much- I bought it as a winter beater vehicle, and I don't drive it much, unless there's snow or some utilitarian reason.
I liked the idea of trading one "special" vehicle (S2000) for another "special" vehicle (GR Corolla), but as it turns out, I didn't care too much for the GR Corolla... so, there we are. Trading the S2000 for another specialty RWD vehicle that will just sit in the garage most of the year seems like it would defeat the purpose.
I am considering getting the Maverick. I haven't had a new car or car payment in a while. I have no interest in having another car payment (I enjoy essentially being debt free- hoping to downsize houses in a few years, get rid of our mortgage and be completely debt free). So, the idea of selling the S2000 brings up an interesting proposition.
The Maverick is kind of a "truck". It drives more like a car. Like, exactly like a car. Very easy to drive. I would get a heck of a lot of use out of it- it would probably (almost undoubtedly) become my most driven vehicle. Gets pretty good fuel economy, like a car. Towing is a bit less than the Xterra (4000 lbs vs 5000 lbs for the Xterra), but still enough for a car dolly and an Integra lol. AWD for snow. Big, usable back seat. Truck bed. Comfortable and easy to drive in traffic. Good on the freeway. Brand new car warranty (maintaining 4 older vehicles gets a bit tiring). I bought my Xterra for half of what it should have sold for- it was my wife's boss' old car and she just wanted to get rid of it, otherwise, I would have preferred to have gotten a small truck (more useful for those rare occasions that I need one).
If I got something like a Maverick I would get a ton of use out of it and it would allow me to downsize to 3 cars vs 4 (my wife's cars notwithstanding). The Xterra is pretty cheap to insure (~$900 a year), so not a huge savings, but something to consider. It might not be as special as the GR Corolla, but it checks a lot of the same boxes I was looking for: turbo, AWD, more utilitarian, no fears of it being scratched/dinged in a parking lot, no concerns about having to find rare/expensive parts, far more likely to actually be used regularly especially year round, etc.
I'm just kicking around an idea.
While talking with my wife, I just had a crazy idea:
1. Sell S2000. Use proceeds to purchase Ford Maverick.
2. After I've acquired Maverick, sell the Xterra. Use the proceeds to purchase NC Miata.
3. ?????
4. Profit
How is the use case of the NC any different than the S2000? Other than not being as afraid to use it because of value? I'm not a collector and don't like things to sit around. Whenever I have more than one fun car, one of them gets sold in a year or so as I realize it's mostly just sitting there. The 911 is the exception to that, I maybe drive it 2000 miles/year and I don't care.
In your case you've got very logical reasons to sell the S2000 but is that what you really want to do do emotionally? If you replace it with another rwd convertible what have you really gained? Will you regret selling it, knowing finding another one will be difficult and probably more expensive to purchase? Do you need the money?
I bought a forum members Xterra for my daughter. I've actually been driving it daily now while I wait for the body shop to get the roof in for my Land Cruiser, then I'll pick up a rental car again. It threw a bit of a hissy fit when we first got it but has been reliable since then. I'm not sure I'd want to tow with it tho...
In reply to docwyte :
I'm still sorting it all out. If I ended up buying the NC, I wouldn't buy a low mileage, pristine example. I wouldn't buy one that is trashed either, but just a decent driver that I wouldn't be concerned with driving about. When I had an NC, I drove it roughly 3 times as much as I drove my S2000 (I owned both simultaneously). That was literally the first time I talked to my wife about selling the S2000, as I drove the NC considerably more and found it was just as fun- in some ways, it was more fun (it's 300 lbs lighter and you can feel it!).
The logical part is easy. The emotional part is difficult. In the past couple years, there have been a few days here or there where my wife and I have enjoyed a bout in a roadster- seemingly to a greater degree than we would have otherwise in a hardtop car- joy rides at sunset or occasional top down summer date nights. I've also had multiple Miata's (x3 NA's, x2 NB's- including a Mazdaspeed, x1 NC and my wife owned an ND1 for a while). Thinking back, we've actually had more fun in my old Miata's than we ever really have in my S2000. Those cars felt more carefree- the S2000 is a more serious machine that is more expensive in the event something goes wrong. I do enjoy roadsters, but like you, I just don't like things sitting around with no purpose.
I don't think I'll ever buy another S2000. It's been fun, but I feel like my love for the car has gone stale, due to it sitting in the garage with no purpose- I'm certainly not a collector. I've considered getting another S2000- a cheaper one that isn't an investment piece and K24 swapping it- the K24 with bolt-ons makes similar power to the F22C, but costs a fraction of the price (~$1200 vs ~$6000) and is far easier to source... but that is a costly affair that would require quite a bit of time, effort and labor on my part- and I'm truly burnt out on major wrenching projects at the moment. The biggest problem with that idea is that the NC exists. Having driven both in anger, I actually prefer the NC's chassis (it's lighter, has much better steering feel and is more forgiving to drive). When driving hard on the perfect canyon road, the S2000's powertrain is a joy to use- VTEC ripping at 8200rpm is glorious! But driving around town, the Miata's plucky little midrange suits the environment better.
No, I certainly don't need the money. It's just been taking up my head-space for the last 2 years, trying to decide if I should keep the car or not, all while driving it less and less. Part of the reason I bought it was because it was "special"- and it is. But in the process, I've discovered that I have enjoyed my far less special vehicles to a far greater degree. I've more or less given myself permission to flog on them with abandon, which I have a hard time doing with the S2000.
The S2000 is appreciating in value... but I pay insurance on it... between insurance, registration (admittedly dirt cheap) and occasional maintenance, the car isn't appreciating at nearly a fast enough rate to justify keeping it as an investment- it's about a break-even rate. I like things to be useful. Bringing joy and having fun can be a use- but sitting in my garage is not useful. Especially when we have so many cars parked outside lol.
I agree that towing with an Xterra isn't ideal, but in the event that the Integra ever broke on track, having the ability to tow it home would be helpful.
The more I'm thinking about it, a plan is starting to formulate:
-Sell S2000.
-Buy Maverick.
-Sell Xterra.
-Finish the Integra and BMW- the Integra is just about done, with the exception of maybe some cosmetic stuff... I still have some plans for the BMW.
-Give it some time, see if I actually miss having a roadster before buying another one. If I decide I'm missing some roadster in my life, buy another NC. If not, just be happy with the cars I have.
Plan sounds good. Execute the plan. Why wait?
This summer, I drove my TR6 and FJ Cruiser way more than my MSM. In some ways, they both are more fun to drive. I've considered selling it, and may still do so. Would I miss it? Sure. With the power and suspension upgrades, it's plenty fast enough and handles great. But I just don't love it like I used too.
It sounds like you are in a similar place with the S2000. You have two cars that scratch a similar itch. For me, it's harder to enjoy the MSM at legal speeds. If you are done with it, move it along. But it's also the wrong time of year to sell a convertable. I'd wait until next spring and see how you feel then.
OHSCrifle said:Plan sounds good. Execute the plan. Why wait?
I can actually show you why I'll be waiting to execute the plan lol. This is literally what it looks like outside of my house at this very moment:
Needless to say, this isn't exactly the time or place to sell roadsters right now. Prices on local S2000's and Miata's have already dropped and will continue to do so until spring time, when they'll jump up again. I haven't followed pricing on BaT, but I figured it would surely mimic national averages to some degree, right?
It also gives local Ford dealers more time to build inventory. Mavericks have been nearly impossible to find up until just the last few months- which has led to dealer markup that I refuse to pay. My local dealer is willing to sell at MSRP, but I have a feeling that if I just wait a bit (they told me they have 15 more on the way right now), I can likely find the exact package I want and get it for somewhere close to Invoice pricing. At that point, I can avoid having to do a fly-and-drive.
If I can wait it out until spring, I will likely be able to sell my S2000 for thousands more and likely have an easier time saving a grand or 2 on a new Maverick. I'm in no rush.
JoeTR6 said:This summer, I drove my TR6 and FJ Cruiser way more than my MSM. In some ways, they both are more fun to drive. I've considered selling it, and may still do so. Would I miss it? Sure. With the power and suspension upgrades, it's plenty fast enough and handles great. But I just don't love it like I used too.
It sounds like you are in a similar place with the S2000. You have two cars that scratch a similar itch. For me, it's harder to enjoy the MSM at legal speeds. If you are done with it, move it along. But it's also the wrong time of year to sell a convertable. I'd wait until next spring and see how you feel then.
My thoughts exactly. If we're being honest, I almost have 3 cars that scratch the same itch- the S2000, the Integra and my 128i are all fun to pitch around on a back road.
Same thoughts on holding off to sell the S2000 until spring time. It's literally pouring down snow outside of my house as we speak... every snow flake I see fall is another dollar off of the value of a roadster right now!
You'll need to log in to post.
