Semi-mysterious vintage Formula Vee

NOTE: I mentioned this car in the TIL thread, but as the story got a little more interesting, I decided that it deserves its own thread.

I've always wanted a Formula car, and I'm super-cheap, so periodically I'll do a search for old Formula Vees. This car popped up fairly close to home a few days ago, and I went to check it out.

It was advertised as a Caldwell D13. It doesn't look much like one of those, but I'm getting ahead of myself.

The owner was a nice guy, with a yard full of cool old stuff; a couple of dune buggies, a Baja Bug and a mid 60's Econoline van. He had never raced the car and didn't know much about it. He said that he found it when looking at some other old VW stuff and just had to buy it because he thought it was so cool. He did some work on it, added some paint and drove it up and down the street a few times, but now he wanted his garage back.

He didn't have a log book and said he couldn't find an ID plate on the chassis, but the guy that he bought it from had told him that it was a D13, so that's what he believed.

The bodywork had a halfway decent re-spray, but the chassis paint was obviously slapped on without much in the way of surface prep. Even the rear coilovers just got a shot of silver spray paint to cover up the rust. The engine looked fairly fresh and clean, and it had a brand new starter.

The price was low enough that I was pretty interested.

But, alas, I did not fit inside. Not even a little. While I suspected I might be too tall, that wasn't a problem. The side tubes were uncomfortably tight at my hips, and there was absolutely no way that I could get both of my arms and shoulders in there at the same time. I couldn't even take it for a test drive.

I had really wanted to buy the car and I was pretty bummed out about it. I even told him so. He suggested that I make an offer, but I told him that I just couldn't make the car work for me. He dropped his price by 25% without me even asking, but I still walked away.

After posting a little blurb about it in the TIL thread, TurnerX19 said that he didn't think it was a D13, and that it was a car that had been misidentified when it was listed Barn Finds a few years ago. Sure enough, I found that article, and I think he's right. I'm pretty sure that this is the very car that was listed there, but with a hasty paint job, an engine swap and the forward posts of the roll bar removed.

https://barnfinds.com/ones-real-one-caldwell-d13-formula-vee/

(Ignore the part about it being a "Real One"...)

In the comment section of the Barn Finds article, a guy name John McKnight said, "The yellow vee is a McKnight FV manufactured in San Diego."

And, as a side note, a different commenter posted a photo of another car that he had found in New Mexico. It looks almost identical. There aren't many Formula Vees with the combination of a big open nose, a bump in the fiberglass above the left side of the front suspension, and the distinctive hatch cover over the steering box.

So they made at least two of them.

So the disappointment of a few days ago has turned to relief that I didn't get involved with this car. That doesn't mean that I won't buy an equally E36 M3ty Formula Car at some point, but at the very least, I'll start out with something that I fit into a little better.

Rattle can rebuild 

Patrick said:

Rattle can rebuild 

In his defense, he did do an engine swap, and the orange paint was definitely shot with a spray gun.

It looks like the car slightly offset to the left.  The open nose seems counter productive.  

BTW what  is the guy asking for it now?  

I'm not considered broad of shoulder, but my f500 is a squeeze. Formula cars are like pants, fitting and tailoring required

I too was curious about the open nose.

In reply to Woody :

So you’re saying the NM junkyard car pic is the exact same car as the orange one you checked out?

Woody needs to try on a D13. The frame tubes are all well down in the cockpit. When original there were only two large diameter tubes. Later roll cage additions have changed that on many cars though.

Pete Gossett said:

In reply to Woody :

So you’re saying the NM junkyard car pic is the exact same car as the orange one you checked out?

I'm saying that I believe that the yellow car is now the orange car. The car in New Mexico is the only other example that I have seen that appears to be from the same manufacturer. I believe that the two cars, Yellow/Orange and the New Mexico car, are both McKnight Formula Vees.

The mouth of the orange car looks different than the opening on the yellow one.  Optical illusion because of color?

Formula cars are always tempting, but if I ever put one on, they would have to cut it off of me. 

Keep up the search Woody. Your garage is way too clean. 

Everything else is so close that I have to go with optical illusion. 

The person who owned my Novakar F500 was 6ft and 200lbs  and they obviously fit.  There are some formula cars that will accommodate larger drivers.   I can't offer anything on personal experiance because at 5' 7" and 140lbs I fit in them all. My old Beach was somewhat roomy but again given my size it's hard for me to say whether or not normal size people fit.

I seem to recall Formcar FVs being roomy and a friend who is a pretty big guy has an Autodynamics vee that he races. 

You can also check F500.us and do a search the topic of roomier cars ahs come up fairly often but I can't remember which chassis. Besides Novakars it may be the KBS chassis cars.

In reply to Tom1200 :

I belong to both FV and F500 groups on FB, but have not found many cars for sale within a reasonable distance.

Tom1200 said:

 

You can also check F500.us and do a search the topic of roomier cars ahs come up fairly often but I can't remember which chassis. Besides Novakars it may be the KBS chassis cars.

I wouldnt say that my KBS mk7 is overly roomy, at least not without modifying the parts around the arms and shoulders.  I am 6'2" and 160lbs, theres a ton of room for my butt, but I have to go in one shoulder at a time, most huskier people who have tried cant get their shoulders down in. 

Woody I paid 2K for my Novakar and then paid $1400 to have it shipped from Michigan to Las Vegas. I can give you measurements on my Novakar if that helps.

Most of the guys I've seen in single seaters who are the least bit broad shouldered have to swivel in to clear the diagonals between the front and rear hoops.  If it's going to be an autocross only car then modifying the diagonals isn't an issue.

Look at the bright side you won't have to spend $400-$600 pouring a seat like we jockey size guys do.

I spent the afternoon karting with my daughter. It’s funny when you think about how much easier it is to get in and out of a kart, not to mention the fact that they’re probably faster and undoubtedly handle better than a Formula Vee.

Arrive and Drive, Baby!. 

Tom1200 said:

Look at the bright side you won't have to spend $400-$600 pouring a seat like we jockey size guys do.

Slight thread jack. 

We poured two seat inserts for our Lemons cars and used this from Lowes.

Total cost to pour two seat inserts was about $50.

In reply to Toyman01 :

https://www.amazon.com/Liquid-Urethane-Rigid-Pour-Density/dp/B079W5G234/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=polymer+planet&qid=1566910654&s=gateway&sr=8-2

This is the stuff I used, just watch the ambient temperature.  Above 70 it goes crazy and you don't get a good pour, too many big bubbles.  Otherwise easy to work with and the finished seat only weighs 1.5 to 2 pounds.  I covered it with fleece to make it more breathable.  I also have enough to make at least one more seat, maybe 2. (Actually, I think I got the half gallon kit so I was in under $30)

If it were a road race car I would have used one of the bead seat kits @ $200.

Why do I feel the need to ask where this car is located? A radiator would fit nicely in the open nose... 

Looking through both posts in detail and considering Paul's post above it is clear that a race car designer in San Diego puts lots more thought into drive cooling than driver comfort in the rain

This being an air-cooled engine, I'm not clear on the purpose of the hole in the nose.  Oil cooler?  Make it look like a '60s formula car?

I found some more about the manufacturer in the August 1969 Vee Line newsletter. I left it as it was written the original article had it spelled Formula Yee

ATTENTION, ASSOCIATES! 
Clark Products, manufacturers of the 
McKnight Formula Yee which has been very 
popular in Southern California, has an-
nounced that they will market detailed plans 
for their car. The plans are taken from the 
current production cars and represent the suc-
cessful result of three years of development 
and testing in actual competition. 
By using the plans, a complete Yee chassis 
can be constructed from mild steel tube, and 
body templates are also provided to facilitate 
construction of a fiberglass body shell. The 
plans, material list and photo of the car are 
available for $5.00. Write: Clark Products, 
3442 Hancock St., San Diego, Cal. 92110

In reply to drsmooth :

Wow, nice work! That's really interesting. I wonder how many sets of plans they sold?

In reply to drsmooth :

I think I remember hearing about Formula Ford plans as well, but not sure who sold them.