Setup for autoX help?

This is for the little 95 Civic CX I have. I have no idea what tire pressure to go for and what stiffness for the konis.

Still stock rear sway, so really little, I may be able to get that changed before the event, it's a 23mm rear sway if I get it changed (pending on finding a subframe brace local). Front sway is an integra bar, quite beefy, but once again, don't have the exact measurement.

13x9 Toyo Proxy r888 700/750 f/r springs Koni Yellows

So mainly I'm trying to get a decent tire pressure/strut firmness to start the testing from.

Any input?

Try 38 front and scale the rear the same as the weight balance. So if it's 60/40 that would be 25psi rear.

Wow! Those springs are STIFF. Since you are already planning to add a larger rear bar, you might be expecting it to push.

Just in case that happens, bring some tools so you can disconnect one side of the front bar.

With those springs rates, I would leave the Koni's at full soft. You can stiffen one axle as needed depending on how the car reacts.

No experience with R888. Since you are testing, it is easier to start pressures on the high side, then lower them one axle at a time depending on how the car behaves, Just drop 2 -4 pounds each time.

I'd take the front sway off. Rear shocks full hard. Front full soft.

Tires start 30 psi front and rear. You'll likely find yourself dropping pressure. Chalk the side walls.

I've only gotten to test the car once, so I'm not sure if it'll want to push or not. The first place the pavement was so bad and I was so new that I couldn't be sure how it was acting, the tires covered up too much. Unfortunately they're all I have (besides some worn 14x6 all seasons). I get back to back sessions (Sat and Sun) this weekend though so I should be able to improve the car's behavior some (and hopefully my skill level along with it).

I should have my gopro running the whole time so you guys can critique.

My build thread for those who are interested.

It's going to push with those spring rates and your current bar setup.

i think the massively understeer-biased sway setup might cancel out the massively oversteer-biased spring setup. I don't think that's a recipe for good handling though.

It did extremely well on the hill climb circuit according to the previous owner. He said with the rear bar on it oversteered too much. Claimed he couldn't get enough heat in the rear tires fast enough since the ass end is so light.

Not trying contradict anyone, just laying out all my "facts." Maybe it's relatively neutral with the current setup?

GameboyRMH wrote: Try 38 front and scale the rear the same as the weight balance. So if it's 60/40 that would be 25psi rear.

I'd do the same. Bring a tank in case you go to far. Nice looking tire btw

clownkiller wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: Try 38 front and scale the rear the same as the weight balance. So if it's 60/40 that would be 25psi rear.

I'd do the same. Bring a tank in case you go to far. Nice looking tire btw

Dumb question, what's the "gone too far" signal?

DaveEstey wrote: I'd take the front sway off. Rear shocks full hard. Front full soft. Tires start 30 psi front and rear. You'll likely find yourself dropping pressure. Chalk the side walls.

This ^^^^^^^^^^

accordionfolder wrote: Not trying contradict anyone, just laying out all my "facts." Maybe it's relatively neutral with the current setup?

Yeah I expect that it's neutral and I can see that it could even be quick, but it seems like an ass-backwards way to do it where little tweaks to the suspension could make things horribly wrong.

Chalk the sidewalls, look for roll over on the back tires. Decrease your rear pressure till your times get slower or the tire rolls over (there's no grip with the sidewall) 750 rear springs will induce oversteer, I think the shocks will not make much difference, try full hard. Pray for a smooth surface. Try to do back to back runs so your tires get some heat.

I am not sure why everyone is jumping on saying your spring rates are to stiff... I have been talking to some of the STC guys locally who run the little 89 -90 civics... They are running upwards of 800lbs spring rates..

My big hope is that the shocks are valved correctly for the high rates you are running..

Like some has mentioned start with the tire pressures a little high, 38ish.. mark the tires and bring them down as you need...

accordionfolder wrote: It did extremely well on the hill climb circuit according to the previous owner. He said with the rear bar on it oversteered too much. Claimed he couldn't get enough heat in the rear tires fast enough since the ass end is so light. Not trying contradict anyone, just laying out all my "facts." Maybe it's relatively neutral with the current setup?

keep in mind that the R888 is more of a track tire than a a-x tire .... it'll stick pretty well... just that it'll take some time to come up to temp ... as opposed to something like the Hoosier A6

DaveEstey wrote: It's going to push with those spring rates and your current bar setup.

what he said ... if you don't get rid of the front bar, at least go back to an OEM sized bar,

keeping in mind that all cars are different and drivers have different ways of driving ...

but typical set up is less spring in the front, and less bar in the front, and less dampening in the front, it's been a long time ago (the last time I ran R888's) and that was on track ...but I seem to remember shooting for 35psi hot all the way around

Hillclimbs aren't autocross. I'm not surprised that he ran it like that for hills, stable and predictable is better in that situation. Not so in autocross.

There is a local crx in STC that has springs of 400f/800r. That thing rotates like a champ. That's why I think your car will push with similar springs front and rear. Soften the front shocks all the way and see how it goes. Follow the tire pressure tips above. If it pushes like that, try the stock front bar. If it still pushes, go no front bar. If that doesn't do it, then It's time for softer front springs.

It will just be some trial and error until you find the balance that you like.

I really like the R888 for AutoX. They changed the compound a couple years ago, and they even market them now for track, and autox. I have good traction even on late fall mornings where temps are in the low 40's. They are very effective for me right at 34lbs. I think your setup is about perfect with that footprint. Going to be a fun ride.

Spoolpigeon wrote: There is a local crx in STC that has springs of 400f/800r. That thing rotates like a champ. That's why I think your car will push with similar springs front and rear. Soften the front shocks all the way and see how it goes. Follow the tire pressure tips above. If it pushes like that, try the stock front bar. If it still pushes, go no front bar. If that doesn't do it, then It's time for softer front springs. It will just be some trial and error until you find the balance that you like.

yeah, those springs could lend themselves to some understeer ... but I think even more-so is the front bar .... " Front sway is an integra bar, quite beefy"

smaller/no front bar ..and the springs COULD work .... a bit more separation might make the set-up a little "mo-better"

Ha, what a varied set of ideas. I get the general trend though.

Here's what I parsed:

I'll start @ 34psi in the front, lower in the rear. Keep dropping pressure till the side wall starts to fold (note to self: get chalk)

full loose in the front, full firm in the rear.

I'm going to try to lose the front bar, but if I don't we'll see how it acts the first day with it. If it really wants to push I may try to get rid of it half way through.

Dumb question number two: Do you just use sidewalk chalk? Or is there a special kind for this?

Sidewalk chalk can work, or you can use white shoe polish - just be aware it will leave a brown stain that will stay for a few months.

BTW, also don't be surprised if the optimal tire pressures are higher than 38psi front. For my 'rolla on star specs it's 42 front 27.5 rear, which almost perfectly matches the weight distribution (although if you want to change the handling balance created by the suspension you might have to intentionally run non-optimal pressures).

as for the front bar ... you don't have to actually remove it (sometimes that can really be a PITA) ..... all you have to do is dis-connect one side

Only thing I did on saturday was set the fronts at 34psi rears at 26psi. It seemed to be scooting nicely and had a tendency to oversteer so it's what I stuck with. I figured it was best to try and improve my skill rather than mess with settings!

Some updates with video on my build thread:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/95-honda-civic-hb/65822/page3/