Sounds like GM has a 3.0 liter inline six up it's sleeve for the new Silverado.
I know we all hate trucks until they're 10 years old and we can buy them to tow racecars, but it's interesting news. I can buy an American made inline 6 again, that's cool.
Looks pretty good to me.
Chevy came close to a half-ton diesel before the great recession. I think it was a 4.5L or so. I'm sort of glad that one didn't happen. It's pointless to do such a large diesel in a half ton when the main reason people want diesels in a half-ton is for fuel efficiency. A 4.5L is excessive. It's really an ironic microchosm of why the big 3 'failed', but anyway.. Titan has their 5.0 Cummins (after originally testing a 2.8 which Cummins now sells as a crate engine) and it shakes out about the same in my mind. They talk about its capabilities in terms of it comparing to the larger engines/trucks, but i dont think there is much market in america for a 'less capable large truck that is still good'. I think people would much rather see a half-ton 4dr pickup with minimal mpg compromise vs a midsize sedan. I think pretty much everyone on this forum would love the Ecodiesel 3.0 Ram if it weren't for the FCA factor.
In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :
I think it's cool too, but not sure on the American made 6. The v8 D-max used to be (still is??) Isuzu built. Not that that's a bad thing. My '04 D-max feels very burly and "American"
In reply to Vigo :
Traditional '3 box' sedan sales are tanking. Truck sales don't seem to be slowing, and most trucks sold are crew cabs with smallish beds and lots of features. It seems as if the buying public still likes a traditional '3 box' design, it's just shifted from unibody, fwd sedans to body on frame, 4WD trucks. Trucks have replaced sedans as the default family hauler.
Anyway, I mention all of this to say that your last point about fuel economy is absolutely true. Trucks have all of the tech and safety features of sedans, with more towing/hauling capabilities, and the fuel economy gap gets narrower all the time. Average driver doesn't care about 20% better cornering dynamics from a sedan. They want to be able to load the kids without bending over and have a commanding view of the road. If the fuel mileage penalty is reduced, the switch to trucks should only continue. At least until the cost disparity gets too great.
doc_speeder said:In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :
I think it's cool too, but not sure on the American made 6. The v8 D-max used to be (still is??) Isuzu built. Not that that's a bad thing. My '04 D-max feels very burly and "American"
D-MAX is a GM / Isuzu joint venture, built in Moraine, Ohio. I think that makes it American made.
I don't really see the point in diesel 1/2 ton trucks but if it gets us another cool engine I'm okay.
buzzboy said:I don't really see the point in diesel 1/2 ton trucks but if it gets us another cool engine I'm okay.
I'm there with you, except for the fact that 1/2 ton trucks are way more capable than 1 ton trucks from 25 years ago. You're still pushing a big pile of air in a fairly heavy truck, so mileage is going to be what it is, but a smaller diesel with the 10 speed might be a great drivetrain for someone who doesn't need to tow the 30k lbs that the big trucks pull and doesn't want the ride that they give. Even though it's not popular around here, I think 1/2 ton trucks make fine daily drivers and this gives another option.
I wonder why an inline six. Not only will that need a long engine bay, but then you get the cylinder ringing noise out of both sides of the block, instead of half of it getting lost in the vee. That's why Cummins sixes seem to be louder than Powerstrokes or Duramaxes.
In reply to Knurled. :
An engine bay long enough for an inline six, and wide enough for a V8 must be big enough for a V12? Raise your hand if you want GM to blow us all away by introducing a 6.0 V12 diesel for the big trucks.
In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :
Now you have me wondering something.
Automakers seem to have fixed on slightly undersquare 500cc/cylinder as ideal for spark-ignition engines. (Either MB or VW have publically said as much, too)
I wonder what the "sweet spot" for cylinder displacement is for Diesel. I would think that it's larger than that, because part of the SI sweet spot is balancing valve area against detonation resistance, whereas Diesel doesn't really need detonation resistance.
mazdeuce - Seth said:...V12 diesel for the big trucks.
The buzzin dozen
If the truck is your daily driver, but you tow a boat, race car or small camper on the weekends I can see the appeal. It would get better fuel economy and comfort than the heavy duty trucks for daily tasks, and still provides enough capability to handle most of the work that an average weekend warrior would throw at it.
I recently purchased a Holden Colorado. 3.0 Isuzu 4 cylinder turbo diesel, 25+mpg, 6600lb towing, 2500lb payload, fits our family of five. It’s awesome. But then, fuel is a lot more money here.
Small diesels in moderate sized trucks can be fantastic!
The little v6 turbodiesel in my GL is a great compromise -- I get fantastic towing ability when I need it and tooling around town returns great fuel mileage -- so I can see why this would be an attractive option. The biggest concern I would have is how choked down with emissions controls diesels are these days. I might be overly sensitive to that due to my experiences with German over-engineering, but it seems like the mechanicals will still pretty much run forever while all the various expensive electronics spend their days going haywire.
mazdeuce - Seth said:Sounds like GM has a 3.0 liter inline six up it's sleeve for the new Silverado.
I know we all hate trucks until they're 10 years old and we can buy them to tow racecars, but it's interesting news. I can buy an American made inline 6 again, that's cool.
Back when I owned a truck a 2yr old f150 supercrew that I bought for 27k vs the 40k it was new I said I would totally daily one if I could get 25+mpg combined. While I won't pay 45k+ pretty much for anycar I would pay 30k for a couple year old one
wae said:The little v6 turbodiesel in my GL is a great compromise -- I get fantastic towing ability when I need it and tooling around town returns great fuel mileage -- so I can see why this would be an attractive option. The biggest concern I would have is how choked down with emissions controls diesels are these days. I might be overly sensitive to that due to my experiences with German over-engineering, but it seems like the mechanicals will still pretty much run forever while all the various expensive electronics spend their days going haywire.
We might be able to do some research on the Colorado diesel in that regard
This is sort of great news for me! Most of the trucks on my radar only return low teens at best for MPG which doesn't financially make sense as a daily driver for me commuting 100 miles a day. The missus refuses to daily something as large as a truck. She also won't let a truck sit around as a 4th vehicle. So for now we compromised with a SWMBO approved Grand Cherokee. It easily tows the racecar on an aluminum trailer and has the features she wants. Despite the IMO fantastic 8spd transmission the v8 is thirsty and at best returns about 15mpg of mixed driving.
But now, if the possibility is there to get something that closes in on high 20 low 30 mpg and does truck things I could very easily see myself trading the diesel jetta for a diesel truck in a few years after kinks are worked out and the initial depreciation hit has occured.
In reply to klodkrawler05 :
I like half ton trucks as family cars. They're big, comfy, have a huge trunk, and can tow a race car. My only problem is that I need two bench seats for everyone and that's getting harder to find. I'm a bit worried that the diesel is only going to come on expensive trims that will do away with the front bench, if the front bench is available on this generation at all.
klodkrawler05 said:This is sort of great news for me! Most of the trucks on my radar only return low teens at best for MPG which doesn't financially make sense as a daily driver for me commuting 100 miles a day. The missus refuses to daily something as large as a truck. She also won't let a truck sit around as a 4th vehicle. So for now we compromised with a SWMBO approved Grand Cherokee. It easily tows the racecar on an aluminum trailer and has the features she wants. Despite the IMO fantastic 8spd transmission the v8 is thirsty and at best returns about 15mpg of mixed driving.
But now, if the possibility is there to get something that closes in on high 20 low 30 mpg and does truck things I could very easily see myself trading the diesel jetta for a diesel truck in a few years after kinks are worked out and the initial depreciation hit has occured.
Seems like the EcoDiesel Grand Cherokee would be right up your alley. Not trying to dissuade you from buying a diesel half ton truck, but if you like everything about the GC except the V8, why not stick with what works, and just get the diesel option?
mazdeuce - Seth said:In reply to Knurled. :
An engine bay long enough for an inline six, and wide enough for a V8 must be big enough for a V12? Raise your hand if you want GM to blow us all away by introducing a 6.0 V12 gas for the small trucks.
FTFY
STM317 said:klodkrawler05 said:This is sort of great news for me! Most of the trucks on my radar only return low teens at best for MPG which doesn't financially make sense as a daily driver for me commuting 100 miles a day. The missus refuses to daily something as large as a truck. She also won't let a truck sit around as a 4th vehicle. So for now we compromised with a SWMBO approved Grand Cherokee. It easily tows the racecar on an aluminum trailer and has the features she wants. Despite the IMO fantastic 8spd transmission the v8 is thirsty and at best returns about 15mpg of mixed driving.
But now, if the possibility is there to get something that closes in on high 20 low 30 mpg and does truck things I could very easily see myself trading the diesel jetta for a diesel truck in a few years after kinks are worked out and the initial depreciation hit has occured.
Seems like the EcoDiesel Grand Cherokee would be right up your alley. Not trying to dissuade you from buying a diesel half ton truck, but if you like everything about the GC except the V8, why not stick with what works, and just get the diesel option?
We looked at those pretty extensively before buying the Hemi one, ultimately I had figured we would really only utilize the GC as SWMBO's daily driver and towing the racecar. With the miles I estimated us driving it annually it didn't make sense for the extra cost of the diesel option. However I hadn't counted on how nice of a place to spend time it is (especially compared to a 15 year old VW ) and we've put far more miles on than expected. Hindsight being 20/20 the EcoDiesel was the drone we were looking for.
When the time comes to replace the Jetta I'd consider a diesel truck over the diesel Cherokee simply for the added utility of a truck bed. Tossing greasy car parts/engines into a truck bed is easier than the hatch of a Cherokee. Although until the half ton diesels start getting some miles on and proving they're as useful as I imagine them to be the diesel GC is high on my list of alternatives.
but a smaller diesel with the 10 speed might be a great drivetrain for someone who doesn't need to tow the 30k lbs that the big trucks pull and doesn't want the ride that they give. Even though it's not popular around here, I think 1/2 ton trucks make fine daily drivers and this gives another option.
Well, unknowns about reliability/durability aside, i'd guess a half-ton diesel of 2018 is better for towing 30k lbs than a 25 year old 1 ton is, too.
Once the Ecodiesel 3.0 Ram came out, i figured this was the beginning of a new paradigm. I would not begrudge someone the choice of using a 7000lb truck as a daily driver when it gets 30mpg on the highway. I would choose that over most sedans and i am not particularly a truck lover.
Knurled. said:I wonder why an inline six. Not only will that need a long engine bay, but then you get the cylinder ringing noise out of both sides of the block, instead of half of it getting lost in the vee. That's why Cummins sixes seem to be louder than Powerstrokes or Duramaxes.
Yeah, not sure how they are going to fit a straight six in the engine bay, unless the '19 is a radical redesign. The 5.3L V8 is already a pretty tight squeeze in the '14+s. Also, I hope that someone other than GM is building that engine, because GM's recent batch of engines have been very troublesome, including the current 4.3L and 5.3L
wae said:The biggest concern I would have is how choked down with emissions controls diesels are these days.
It's the opposite, though. Modern emissions controls are allowing new Diesels to be absurdly powerful and efficient relative to how they used to be.
Remember when a one ton Diesel truck meant maybe the same torque as the available big block but 10-30% less power?
I just got back from a Dodge/Jeep dealer for some service, and they had a 2017 Ram 1500 Laramie EcoDiesel 3.0 liter. Trailer brake, heated and cooled leather seats, 4x4, ... lots of options. The price at the window sticker $55,800 but the hanging placard from the mirror said $40,800. The 3.0 diesel is rated for less than the Hemi for payload and towing.
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