ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory Dork
7/29/14 9:37 p.m.

Some vehicles are complex nightmares. Power everything, more diagnostic sensors than the space shuttle etc.

What modern vehicles are the least complex? The most likely to be fixed from an average simple toolbox rather than having to decode which sensor of the 18 is causing a rough idle...

Any surprises out there? I guess I just miss the simpler times when you could break down and fix your car with hand tools, your eyes, ears and nose.

Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/29/14 9:44 p.m.

2WD pickup, the older the design the better. Probably something like a base Ranger with the 4-banger and a manual.

bgkast
bgkast GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/29/14 9:51 p.m.

Anything post 1995 will be OBD2 and require said decoding. It can actually help you find out what the issue is though.

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 UltimaDork
7/29/14 9:57 p.m.

The Jeep XJ was made until 2001.

My 2003 Saturn Vue fwd, 4cyl, manual trans is rather simple but even more simple is the small Saturn S-series, sold until 2002.

06HHR
06HHR Reader
7/29/14 10:15 p.m.

Chevy Blazer/GMC Jimmy, 2WD based on the S-10 chassis 95-2002/03 i think. Most complicated part is the dang injector spider assembly on the 4.3 V6. The rest of the truck can be fixed with a hammer and channel-lock pliers.

SyntheticBlinkerFluid
SyntheticBlinkerFluid PowerDork
7/29/14 10:30 p.m.

Honestly, the 1st gen Durango/Dakota - 2nd gen Ram

I've had my Durango for about 8 years now and it's pretty damn simple. I have the 5.9L, so distributor ignition. I have an '03 which is the last year for the 1st gen, so all the nit-picky problems were fixed by then (except the transmissions of course).

Same things with the 2nd gen Ram. They were still pretty simple by their last year in 2001.

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
7/29/14 10:31 p.m.

Base Xterra?

stanger_missle
stanger_missle GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
7/29/14 11:41 p.m.

TJ Wrangler with the 4L and NV3550 5 speed

fornetti14
fornetti14 GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/30/14 6:35 a.m.

My '04 Forester XS is simple to work on.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/30/14 9:06 a.m.
bgkast wrote: Anything post 1995 will be OBD2 and require said decoding. It can actually help you find out what the issue is though.

I like my code reader... makes diagnosing a lot easier

2002maniac
2002maniac HalfDork
7/30/14 10:22 a.m.

1999 was the last year for the square body style suburban/tahoe. I have a 99 Suburban 2500 with the 350 and it's a simple work horse.

alfadriver
alfadriver UltimaDork
7/30/14 11:06 a.m.

I'm curious what the goal is. Or what issue you are planning for.

I look at my Miata, and recall that I took it over 200k miles with just an handful of problems- all of which were easier to figure out thanks to OBDII.

Once the engine gets worn enough, it barely matters if the engine was in a 1994 Miata or 1999 Miata- it's the same mechanical work.

I can't even dream of that kind of reliablity of my Alfa.

So I wonder if people are extrapliating experiences of 70-80's cars into the 2000's.

One of the more hidden, but more major, benefits of OBDII is the life requirement. Moreso for any post LEVII/Tier2 car- where the emissions requirements ask for 120k or 150k durability. Making the emissions systems last that long made the entire car much better, and much more reliable.

For instance, I bet people like the simplicity of distributors. But coil on plug set up's are WAY more simple, and much more reliable. You replace a shaft, bearings, weights, points, cap, wires, etc with coils for each cylinder. Same with fuel injection vs. carbs.

As a result, the car generally need fixing a whole lot less.

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
7/30/14 11:13 a.m.
alfadriver wrote: As a result, the car generally need fixing a whole lot less.

agreed. But I think the OP is confusing good complexity(EFI, COP, OBDII) with not "needed" complexity, seat heaters, navigation systems, power sliding doors.

a 2000-2005 2wd 4cylinder 5 speed ranger will be the simplest vehicle around. Manual windows, manual locks, manual trans, simple stereo with the benefits of a modern engine and modern materials.

alfadriver
alfadriver UltimaDork
7/30/14 11:23 a.m.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:

I see what you mean, but that's not how i read the original post. It asks specifially about diagnostics and sensors to diagnose an idle problem as the example of complex.

Not about electric memory seats.

There are a TON of cars out there that are as simple as a Ranger. THE ANSWER being one of them. Then again, I really don't see electric locks and windows overly complex- they certainly are not new by 2000.

jstand
jstand Reader
7/30/14 11:53 a.m.

Even something as simple as a Ranger still has some quirks related to sensors that are much easier to sort thanks to the ability to read codes.

I had a '99, 4cyl (2.5L), 5 speed, 2wd with manual windows and locks.

A bad speed sensor in the rear diff would cause it to stall coming to a stop at traffic lights. The codes revealed the culprit sensor, otherwise making the connection that a bad sensor in the diff was causing the stalling have probably taken a lot longer to find.

The speedometer still worked, once you were above 10 mph, but otherwise no clues that the two were related.

Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/30/14 12:56 p.m.
alfadriver wrote: In reply to Fueled by Caffeine: I see what you mean, but that's not how i read the original post. It asks specifially about diagnostics and sensors to diagnose an idle problem as the example of complex. Not about electric memory seats. There are a TON of cars out there that are as simple as a Ranger. THE ANSWER being one of them. Then again, I really don't see electric locks and windows overly complex- they certainly are not new by 2000.

Well, I suggested the Ranger because there just ain't much to it. Manual trans, manual windows, 4-banger has fewer moving parts than a V6 or V8, there are only two doors, so fewer places for leaks to develop, etc.

Personally, I love my gizmos, so I have no use for such a thing. And I've come to love OBD2, too. But, I was just answering the question as posed.

etifosi
etifosi Reader
7/30/14 1:00 p.m.

body on frame, rwd, v8.......... Crown Vic. You can fix it with rocks and twine, parts are everywhere and they last like iron pillowcases.

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