I've been offered an old Formula Jr. race car remnants. I can make it work except the original BMC engine has been replaced with a Saab engine 900 cc 2 Stroke.
I'd like something like a Alfa 1100? But I'd also need a transmission for that. $?
I need a late 50's early 60's 4 cylinder 1100 cc to make it legal.
So, the obvious question is why not another BMC engine? They're plentiful, have a known history and parts are still made for them.
I think it'll be a challenge to find something. You can go Italian with a Fiat or Alfa motor. Something French might meet what you need, but will probably be difficult to find and even harder to get parts, much less racing parts, for. The Japanese were just starting to move into cars, but I don't think any had an 1100 sized motor yet. German might be a possibility. BMW only had isettas and the 700, which was rear engined. The precursor to the 2002 had a 1500. VW hadn't branched beyond flat 4 air cooled yet. Not sure about Mercedes, but I think the smallest was th 190 engines.
I think the year requirement is probably the biggest limiter, but can understand wanting something different.
EDIT: Skoda had the Octavia around that time with an 1100 and Datsun had the Blubird with a 1000 or 1100 option
I have to agree, the BMC engine is a strong choice or an early Ford Kent. They did come in 1.1L versions just not on this side of the "pond".
In reply to frenchyd :
If only you could use a Datsun A12 motor those are cheap and plentiful.
I'd also say go with BMC A series as well.
What's wrong with the Saab?
In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :
I just don't like them.
Tom1200 said:In reply to frenchyd :
If only you could use a Datsun A12 motor those are cheap and plentiful.
I'd also say go with BMC A series as well.
I've done those so many times. I want cams.
Coventry Climax
Fiat 1100. They were used extensively in old formula junior cars. You'll need to get into the Fiat club network, but they are out there.
And there's no such thing as an Alfa 1100. In theory, if you got the short crank of the later 1300s and the bores of the early 1300's, you could make a ~1000 cc motor, but I'm not aware that anyone actually did that.
Which is another way of saying the Fiat motor was used a lot for a reason.
Easy answer is definitely BMC A series.
Lots of easily available parts to make it competitive. Cheap, and plentiful even on this side of the pond.
Are you going to Pebble Beach or just have a romp with it? Total rebuild-restoration = Little Brit engine. Having fun, I would go with a modern 4cyl OR a motorcycle engine. I'm not familiar with the drivetrain set up, but I would lean toward later stuff, not the flat head.
Over head camshafts and Coventry Climax engines are not F Jr. legal. What brand is the chassis? There were no less than 160 F.Jr. "manufacturers". In five years
I agree with the "what is the end purpose?" question. While I get that it might not be as interesting to build, I would avoid rebuilding an old race car into something not conforming to any classing rules. All you're doing is creating more work for the next owner to probably undo.
lotusseven7 (Forum Supporter) said:Coventry Climax
Amen!!! But can you find them and then at what cost?
ddavidv said:Fiat 1100. They were used extensively in old formula junior cars. You'll need to get into the Fiat club network, but they are out there.
That's good advice. Thanks
alfadriver said:And there's no such thing as an Alfa 1100. In theory, if you got the short crank of the later 1300s and the bores of the early 1300's, you could make a ~1000 cc motor, but I'm not aware that anyone actually did that.
Which is another way of saying the Fiat motor was used a lot for a reason.
Most Formula Jr's race with 1275's. Nobody says boo. It's rare to see even 2 formula jrs at an event.
Throwing it out there - are you sure that this isn't a SAAB Quantum Formula Junior? Because if it is, sticking a BMC engine into it would be a pity IMHO as those are very rare cars.
914Driver said:Are you going to Pebble Beach or just have a romp with it? Total rebuild-restoration = Little Brit engine. Having fun, I would go with a modern 4cyl OR a motorcycle engine. I'm not familiar with the drivetrain set up, but I would lean toward later stuff, not the flat head.
Vintage racing is all about fun. The performance of the cars is its history. Any engine of the era near that size is welcome. If I could find one an old Offy Midget engine would be an absolute blast. Enter it as Formula Libre.
I've never seen a vintage car have an engine tear down. It's normal for much newer Chevy small blocks in what is now Group 3 which ended in 1959.
BoxheadTim said:Throwing it out there - are you sure that this isn't a SAAB Quantum Formula Junior? Because if it is, sticking a BMC engine into it would be a pity IMHO as those are very rare cars.
No! It has a similar look to the Huffaker formula Jr. and original picture of the car show the exhaust on the other side.
It's home made like so many were.
As A Saab Quantum Formula Jr I'd pass You're right it would be a shame to cut up one of those.
frenchyd said:alfadriver said:And there's no such thing as an Alfa 1100. In theory, if you got the short crank of the later 1300s and the bores of the early 1300's, you could make a ~1000 cc motor, but I'm not aware that anyone actually did that.
Which is another way of saying the Fiat motor was used a lot for a reason.
Most Formula Jr's race with 1275's. Nobody says boo. It's rare to see even 2 formula jrs at an event.
Not sure what you are trying to say. You asked specifically about an 1100 engine, even specifically about an Alfa 1100 motor, And I just posted that there is no such thing. There's kind of a way to make one, but I am not sure if anyone has ever done it.
If you want to run an Alfa 1300 in a class intended for a 1100 motor, that's your choice.
If you think that people will accept an Alfa 1300 motor when compared to an BMC 1275, again, that's your justification, not mine.
Or you can get a Fiat motor, that has a lot of class history behind it.
frenchyd said:914Driver said:Are you going to Pebble Beach or just have a romp with it? Total rebuild-restoration = Little Brit engine. Having fun, I would go with a modern 4cyl OR a motorcycle engine. I'm not familiar with the drivetrain set up, but I would lean toward later stuff, not the flat head.
Vintage racing is all about fun. The performance of the cars is its history. Any engine of the era near that size is welcome. If I could find one an old Offy Midget engine would be an absolute blast. Enter it as Formula Libre.
I've never seen a vintage car have an engine tear down. It's normal for much newer Chevy small blocks in what is now Group 3 which ended in 1959.
Then why not go for a full 2.0l motor? It will be fun, too. Or even a Porsche 3.0l 4 cyl motor? Plenty of fun.
Where does the justification stop?
TurnerX19 said:Over head camshafts and Coventry Climax engines are not F Jr. legal. What brand is the chassis? There were no less than 160 F.Jr. "manufacturers". In five years
"Manufacturers". ?! There were a lot more than that because it was designed as a every man's race car. A lot of them were started in somebodies garage. But by the time they were finished the class was left for the regions and often tossed in with Formula V.
This one raced once at Elkhart Lake and then I saw it again at Brainerd during the early day of Vintage racing with the Saab engine. The noise of the Saab is exactly why I don't want to ever run that engine.
alfadriver said:frenchyd said:914Driver said:Are you going to Pebble Beach or just have a romp with it? Total rebuild-restoration = Little Brit engine. Having fun, I would go with a modern 4cyl OR a motorcycle engine. I'm not familiar with the drivetrain set up, but I would lean toward later stuff, not the flat head.
Vintage racing is all about fun. The performance of the cars is its history. Any engine of the era near that size is welcome. If I could find one an old Offy Midget engine would be an absolute blast. Enter it as Formula Libre.
I've never seen a vintage car have an engine tear down. It's normal for much newer Chevy small blocks in what is now Group 3 which ended in 1959.Then why not go for a full 2.0l motor? It will be fun, too. Or even a Porsche 3.0l 4 cyl motor? Plenty of fun.
Where does the justification stop?
I guess we all have to decide that for ourselves. If you notice I'm not going for a modern engine. Running a Midget Offy engine in Formula Libre Is still a very Vintage car.
But you have an extremely valid point. The use of modern Chevy small blocks killed attendance of Ferrari , Jaguar, and Aston Martin, cars with legitimate histories in Group 3.
SVRA has one group 3 that under that copy of a copy fiberglass Devin body is modern high tech stuff.
alfadriver said:frenchyd said:alfadriver said:And there's no such thing as an Alfa 1100. In theory, if you got the short crank of the later 1300s and the bores of the early 1300's, you could make a ~1000 cc motor, but I'm not aware that anyone actually did that.
Which is another way of saying the Fiat motor was used a lot for a reason.
Most Formula Jr's race with 1275's. Nobody says boo. It's rare to see even 2 formula jrs at an event.
Not sure what you are trying to say. You asked specifically about an 1100 engine, even specifically about an Alfa 1100 motor, And I just posted that there is no such thing. There's kind of a way to make one, but I am not sure if anyone has ever done it.
If you want to run an Alfa 1300 in a class intended for a 1100 motor, that's your choice.
If you think that people will accept an Alfa 1300 motor when compared to an BMC 1275, again, that's your justification, not mine.
Or you can get a Fiat motor, that has a lot of class history behind it.
You are right. Because I'd run it as a 1300. Then run it in formula Libre which would put me in with Formula V's and even formula Fords. It would still be a tail end Charlie. Heck I could probably run a 1600 Alfa and still be at the back of the field. Who would care? It's about Fun. The club would be happy for the entry fee and with nobody else in my class who would I beat?
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