So, Saturn?

Its looking like I may end up selling my SE-R and will be looking for a car that will basically be a "winter beater", and I'll primarily drive my Miata in the summer. There seem to be a ton of reasonably priced Saturns that fit the bill, but I've never owned one. So, any GRM opinions on reliability, maintenance costs, longevity? Just looking for something with a low cost of ownership. I know they get decent mileage, so that's a plus. I'm a little concerned that there are so many of them because no one wants to keep the one they have.

Currently own a 1999 SW2--the wagon. Been throught a few SL2s and they are great commuters and daily drivers.

They are cheap to own, maintain, and insure. If you have a pull a part near by you can use that for part harvesting.

They will burn some oil so be aware of that.

Get a manual one so you can have some fun..auto is boring to me.

Add gas and oil and you'll be fine

Cost of ownership on my last two was zero, including depreciation :) Current one is on track to be a very low cost of ownership car.

Reliability: Good. Some non-essential parts will fail, but they are cheap to replace, and cars are easy to work on
Longevity: Great. Pretty tough little cars. Door sill rust on a 1st gen in Michigan may be an issue, but it isn't structural.
Maintenance: Easy and cheap. Not a lot required here... mainly just keep the oil changed.

Why are they so common for so cheap? Old, GM, and a brand that no longer exists. They are neglected econoboxes just like all the other cars out there, but don't hold their value well. The bonus here is they won't depreciate after you get a hold of one.

Things to look for: -Massive oil burning. They burn oil, its a well known fact. The issue is they are sensitive to those who never change their oil. It only makes the problem worse. If you start it up and its smoking like a demon stay away. I mean, it will run like that forever... you just don't want to drive a mosquito fogger and keep it fed.
-Auto trans issues. These are a blessing and a curse. If you want an auto, its a pretty robust transmission, but it sometimes will have a valve body issue or a loosened input shaft nut over time. People will think the car needs a new trans and sell it for $dirt, but it doesn't. Both are fixed easily in the car, and the input shaft nut is free.
-Bad upper engine mount. Will make the engine flop, and car will rattle like crazy @ idle. There are $15 aftermarket mounts that are junk and the the problem will return quickly. I think its around $50 for another good one and the car will be fine for another 60k miles.
-Diff pin failures. The diff is sensitive to a lot of wheelspin. Don't do burnouts, or lay on the gas in the snow/ice with TC off.

Probably more known issues, but they aren't bad appliances. Definitely one of the lowest cost of ownership vehicles out there.

For winter in Michigan I'd be looking for a 95+ 5spd DOHC with ABS. That will also get you traction control and 4 wheel discs on SL/SC cars. Wagons don't get rear discs (except 93/94), but they are dirt cheap and easy to swap on. I think I just priced it out the other day and it was like $200 for brand new components from rockauto.

I have put my older sister into two SL's. There are simple and robust. She is the quintessential neglecting owner. The only thing I have done well is to get her to pay attention to the oil change sticker on the windshield which recommends 3k miles but I bet she goes 5k. I have placed a quart of oil in her trunk and instructed her to pull over IMMEDIATELY if the light comes on as well as I have showed her how to fill it.

With that, she has never had to use the bottle of oil. The cars are not fancy or glamorous. Personally, I think they are a rough sounding engine that never particularly sounds healthy (SOHC) but they do soldier on. What I mean is the engine always sounds a little rough and the trans a little noisy but never really complain or sound as if they will quit working.
We have bought them used with near 45k miles and she keeps them until about 130k miles. The DOHC is smoother. The bodies keep looking good with the composite panels.

kazoospec wrote: Its looking like I may end up selling my SE-R and will be looking for a car that will basically be a "winter beater", and I'll primarily drive my Miata in the summer. There seem to be a ton of reasonably priced Saturns that fit the bill, but I've never owned one. So, any GRM opinions on reliability, maintenance costs, longevity? Just looking for something with a low cost of ownership. I know they get decent mileage, so that's a plus. I'm a little concerned that there are so many of them because no one wants to keep the one they have.

I'll sell you mine.

In reply to Matthew Huizing:

Might be interested. Shoot me a FB message and we'll talk specifics. To the others, thanks for all the replies, BTW. Sound's like pretty much exactly what I'm looking for.

Lots of cheap fun. DOHC motors are spunkier than 124 hp says they should be, and still get 32-34 being beaten. I could get high 30s on the highway driving very carefully and keeping my speed to ~65 or lower. Be advised, early coupes are not that practical as a four-seater (tiny backseat, no headroom, no legroom). When they went to the body redesign (1996, IIRC) they made the coupes the same wheelbase as the sedans which made the backseat more usable.

BTW - from the responses, I'm assuming I shouldn't be scared off by high miles? Most I'm seeing are in the 105K to 135K range.

kazoospec wrote: BTW - from the responses, I'm assuming I shouldn't be scared off by high miles? Most I'm seeing are in the 105K to 135K range.

Eh, not so much as long as everything checks out and is in ok shape.

three saturns are daily drivers in my family. Mine is the baby at 135,xxx miles, the automatic wagon has 149,xxx? and the sl2 i gave my dad has 253,xxx miles +.

High mileage isn't a problem for mechanical operation - only general wear and tear and resale of course. Interior wear will be the most significant difference in a car with high miles. DR seat left bolster will be the most noticeable issue, also headliner failing, etc.

Exterior really does not wear unless the owner likes to hit things. The paint is damn near indestructible when compared with Japanese cars. I swear you could use a brillo pad to wash a Saturn and never have an issue.

105k - 135k is nothing. Hell, they may not even burn any oil at that mileage.

there are many reasons we run the SC2 in ChumpCar:

• bulletproof
• simple
• efficient
• lightweight
• tossable

at beaverun last summer, at the end of the 7-hr race Saturday (which we won by 5 laps), we swapped tires front to rear, replaced front rotors, added 400 ml motor oil, and finished second on Sunday. each stint is 1 hr 45 min, which is the perfect fuel window for these cars. three pit stops is all it takes to do the 7 hour race.

Be weary of the newer ones. Some are based on opel chassis, some are awesome, some not so much.

We have an 04 SL300 wagon, it has the 3.0dohc v6 notorious for making the Cadillac catera not reliable. The engine (although supposedly bad) is great. The CAN BUS baloney however, I feel like I'm fixing a newer vw...

Be mindful some of the new parts supplies are drying up.

The BCM's need re-set, this can only be done with a saturn specific computer. We have been using some a snap on mt2500 which can tell you what is wrong by accessing the BCM, it just can't re-boot them. Intermittent light, wiper etc. Glitches, put in new parts, clean grounds, same problems...

I think the astra is sweet looking, but before you jump, take a look on rock auto or call your local auto parts stores, new saturn parts are not as available as they used to be. Pre-saturn demise cars aren't quite the reliable economy cars they started out as.

As noted above by Daytonaer, all my comments (and I suspect others as well) only apply to the Saturn S-series products which were made till '02 and only came as 4cyl in either SOHC or DOHC.
Avoid others at all costs.

When new, these cars were rated for 40 mpg hyw. There are few cars still on the market that rate so high with such low purchase prices.

Sounds like everythings been said. I have 170K on my 1997 SC2 5-speed. No issues, just maint.

Spend the extra on a DOHC car, at this point the amount of money extra is nil and you get a much nicer car inside and out.

In short, you want a "2" series car built from 1996-2002 with a stick shift. (all "2's" are DOHC.) (earlier cars had automatic seat belts and the interiors aren't as nice)

As long as you're looking at the S-series and not any L-series, Ion, or Vue junk, they are Honda indestructability at early Kia prices. The best years are '95-'98, stay away from '91 and '99. Everything else I want to say has already been said.

The one thing I can add is in the north, rust is a bigger problem than it appears - literally, since the plastic body panels always make the car look good. The rear door sills have been mentioned. The underside, though, can take a beating. Brake lines often rust out. The front subframe rusted out on the last two of the four Saturns I've owned. The first one happened after I sold it, but the second one was the reason why the car pulled to the side under acceleration - the subframe was flexing with the torque! But hey, that $400 SW2 5-speed was a lot cheaper than a hardtop for my Miata. Also, as with any rusty car, bolts and other fasteners may be so rusty that they snap before they come loose. So, check the underside for rust, especially the subframes. In areas that don't salt their roads, all this should be less of a problem.

Other than that, what others have said. Check the oil FREQUENTLY. Unless gas mileage is your primary main objective, go for a DOHC car - 124hp in a 2400lb car goes a long way. (And you can swap the super tall 5th gear from a SOHC car's transmission into a DOHC car's transmission if you want the best of both.) 95 and newer have much nicer interiors and lose the automatic seat belts. I can't stand the 93-94 airbag steering wheel.

Twin_Cam wrote: As long as you're looking at the S-series and not any L-series, Ion, or Vue junk, they are Honda indestructability at early Kia prices. The best years are '95-'98, stay away from '91 and '99. Everything else I want to say has already been said.

But if you buy a Vue with the Honda motor, you literally get Honda indestructability! Of course it will be attached to a highly destructable transmission

As a past owner of an excellent SL2, I will never NOT recommend them. Phenomenal little pieces of kit.

I'm still looking for a first gen SC1 with a stick to hypermile around, and a second gen SW2 with a stick for funsies.

I love/hate how threads like these always make you want to buy a car.

I don't even NEED a car right now.

My sister has had a sohc automatic sedan since high school. slow as molasses but they like it. It only has around 80k and they "cant figure out where the oil is going". Now its my brother in law's DD.

One of my friends was really into saturns and mentioned something to me, if you ever have window problems, dont take off the inner door trim, take off the OUTER door shell, its just bolted on. Also makes for easy panel replacements .

True, rust can be a problem on the subframes. Luckily they aren't too hard to replace. I've never had a rusty subframe in VA (and a few years spent in MI and OH), but I have had plenty of rusty parts on Japanese cars that were far newer . In my experience, they are far less sensitive to rust than a Japanese car of the same age. There is a repair for the rear door sills (factory weld-in replacement, hard to find now though), and subframes are a relatively straightforward fix. The body itself will be fine... no rotted out fenders or crap like that.

And yes, every body panel can be unbolted from the car... even the roof. The roof is a bitch, but it can be done. A 1G SW2 has a metal hood, but is otherwise plastic. All other Saturns have a metal roof and trunk as well.

Finally found one that meets my needs. I ended up with a 1997 SC1 four door with relatively low miles (127K) for a decent price. Its glacially slow, but in very good shape overall. Think its going to be a great winter-beater. Thanks for all the advice. Would have liked to have found a twin cam, but I really don't need the power in the winter and the extra MPG should come in handy. Got a really good laugh when I had to explain to my son how roll-up windows work.

SC = Coupe

SL = Sedan

So if it's got 4 doors it's an SL1, not an "SC1 four door".

Is it a 5spd at least? A friend of mine's mom had a sohc tbi 5spd that i often worked on and drove, and i liked the motor well enough. It was the mostly shattered plastic interior that really kept me from getting into that car. However, that was an earlier year model.

Vigo wrote: However, that was an earlier year model.

They didn't improve later on I have one from two years before they stopped making it (2002), and the interior is still turdtastic. Rattles so loud they'll give you headaches, everything feels super-cheap, even the gauge lighting set-up is like something a 12-year-old kid thought up and then executed poorly. I didn't realize how truly bad it was until we bought my wife's Mazda P5, it's only two years newer and the interior is lightyears ahead, and it's the same class of car.

AngryCorvair wrote: SC = Coupe SL = Sedan So if it's got 4 doors it's an SL1, not an "SC1 four door".

Sorry, yep, SL1. An SC was what I really wanted, but I found the back seat difficult to access (although I never did find a decent 3 door and that might have helped with the seat access problem). Since I have two rapidly growing boys, a 4 door just seemed a better choice. This one was pretty clean too, and for a little over 2 grand, I couldn't pass it up. It was nice to drive 35 miles home and never see the gas needle move.

Oh, and yes, it is a 5 speed. Some things are non-negotiable.