So what years were VW's OK?

bigev007 wrote: Every vw story is either "best car ever, super reliable for 200k" or "total pos, same things breaking constantly even with OEM parts." That's what scares me, there's no middle ground. Not a gamble I'm willing to take.

The weird thing is, I have seen no lemon VWs. I am sure they exist, but every 1.8t I have the valve cover off of is clean inside. I have never had to deal with suspension issues on B5s (or other multi-link front Audis) except for the rear control arm/shock mount that rots away. Would I buy a B5? In a heartbeat! They are galvanized and dont rust, the drivetrains are bulletproof even at triple the power levels, and the interiors seem to hold up well.

On the flip side, just for an anecdote, I have a customer with an Audi TT. We service it regularly and take good care of it for him. He took it somewhere else in an emergency and they replaced the coil packs, and also did an oil change and a valve cover gasket. They replaced the fancy oil breather retainers (that I installed maybe 5k earlier) with zip ties, they broke a bunch of underhood clips, the new valve cover gasket was leaking, they didn't actually install the coils all the way, and they destroyed the undertray by stripping all of the fasteners, so it fell down when he was driving it and it got mangled. And they stripped out the oil pan.

So, if you have a VW and maintain it properly or take it somewhere that is competent, then you have no problems. If you take it to complete doofuses (this may include VW dealerships) then you gonna have problems.

In reply to Knurled:

I'd agree with that. It's also one of the main reasons I bought my car new - I know 100% of the service history.

Would I consider buying a used VW? Perhaps... but it would have to be cheap since I'd assume doing a lot of preventive maintenance and "return to Zero" work, if that makes sense.

A friend of mine recently sent me a link to an '01 Jetta 1.8t 5 spd she's considering. She really hot for the car, but it seems expensive to me ($5500) even with the low miles (74K). I tried my best to dissuade her, but I know once she gets any idea into her head... I'd feel better if the car had twice the miles and was half the price.

Ian F wrote: In reply to Knurled: A friend of mine recently sent me a link to an '01 Jetta 1.8t 5 spd she's considering. She really hot for the car, but it seems expensive to me ($5500) even with the low miles (74K). I tried my best to dissuade her, but I know once she gets any idea into her head... I'd feel better if the car had twice the miles and was half the price.

Too much!!!

I bought this for $2k, added $300 in used parts and safetied it. It had the equivalent of 89k miles and its an 03 GLS. It's a 2.slow but that is too much cash for an 01 Jetta.

Not another bash VW thread.. All I can add is that I've been trying to kill my 00 golf TDI for years now. I still drive the snot out of it and it still gets 50+ mpg.Yes it has a few issues, what old car doesn't ? If you want a VW then get it. Bad or good you'll learn something along the way.

Ian F wrote: In reply to Knurled: I'd agree with that. It's also one of the main reasons I bought my car new - I know 100% of the service history. Would I consider buying a used VW? Perhaps... but it would have to be cheap since I'd assume doing a lot of preventive maintenance and "return to Zero" work, if that makes sense. A friend of mine recently sent me a link to an '01 Jetta 1.8t 5 spd she's considering. She really hot for the car, but it seems expensive to me ($5500) even with the low miles (74K). I tried my best to dissuade her, but I know once she gets any idea into her head... I'd feel better if the car had twice the miles and was half the price.

It will quickly be a $6700 car because at that mileage its almost due for a timing belt.

One thing about the 1.8ts... if you have one with a manually adjusted timing belt (only the early ones, I think), it is very easy to get the tension wrong. Too tight and the belt will walk off one way, too loose and it walks off the other way.

Every time I do one, I run the engine with the top cover off to ensure that the belt stays centered. Even the ones with the automatic tensioner.

Ok. So I'll say again, if you wanted a gti but more reasonable, reliable, what would you buy? Only two folks have answered that.

I sold my 03 gti 1.8t for an e46 325i. So, that.

For $1500 a B13 SE-R, or an EF civic Si if you can find one.

In reply to NGTD:

I'd rather pay $5500 for a 1.8T than $2000 for a 2.0, so IMO you paid too much.

In reply to tuna55:

SVT Focus.

Celica GTS.

What GTI? An 80s GTI with the 8-valve SOHC engine, a 90s GTI with the ABA engine (*), or an 00s GTI with a 1.8t?

Asterisk - Don't call it a 2.slow, unless you enjoy being mocked endlessly. An ABA-engined car is a right fun thing to drive, engine is very flexible and plenty of power for the chassis. If you are worried about 80-140 pulls then maybe a front drive VW is not for you in the first place.

szeis4cookie wrote: Celica GTS.

Or the Matrix/Pontiac thingie that shared the engine and transmission.

Mk1 or 2 with an aba block or full swap is a lot of fun. In the later chassis its not enough motor especially when the vr6 and 1.8t are available.

My favorite car I had a hand in was a 90 gti with the euro spec abf 16v engine swapped in. Best of all worlds but not the cheapest thing.

Buy an 02-03 Mazda Protege5

A v8 S10.

tuna55 wrote: Ok, I get the lovers and the haters Haters: let's say I want mk2 gti in rough shape for $1500. What would you recommend instead? Lovers: what are the common failure points On a mk2 gti?

If you want an MK2 GTi, get a later one with a 16v, preferably with Digifant. CIS would be ok too, but parts get pricey, vacuum leaks are a PITA. If anything else fails, a replacement part can be found for $100 or less and parts are readily available. Get a Bentley manual and, with your truck build, there shouldn't be anything scary to diy. $1500 should get you a nice daily driver, rough would be sub $1000.

Knurled wrote: "Asterisk - Don't call it a 2.slow, unless you enjoy being mocked endlessly...." Lighten up, it's a tongue in cheek reference.

Things I've been told is that if you want a German car, buy one that was actually built in Germany. When they sent the plans and tooling to Mexico quality suffered.

FWIW my 2007 Passat VR6 is phenominal, I have no desire for one built stateside.

For real gremlins and hidden difficulties, buy a Phaeton. Now THAT will teach you to appreciate how easy and simple everything else is.

Junkyard_Dog wrote: If you think the 940 was needy, you are nowhere near ready for VW ownership!

Just to be fair:

The 940 was a neat car. I was trying to use is as a minivan substitute, and it proved difficult to service* for that role. It wasn't unreliable, it was a problem that I misdiagnosed. It had a radiator cap fail. I replaced two radiator hoses, a water pump seal, a head gasket, turbocharger and a heater core before I figured that out.

*What was difficult was not working on it, but getting local parts for it. The classic example was the oil drainback tube. It had this weirdo rubber grommet in the oil pan. It was like $0.60 online, but I paid an extra $10 to get next day delivery and still missed a day of work because of it because nobody locally even knew what it was.

This car is going to be Daddy's car. Sure, it will carry kids occasionally, but mostly just for me.

I say that because I once got stuck in a NYC parking lot. The brick would not start and I had no idea why. While changing a poopy diaper, I was approached by a few slimeballs and managed to get them to go away by brandishing a used diaper at them. This actually happened.

Anyway, this is excellent advice. I am still considering the GTI, it sounds like something I need to try. Keep it coming.

Also, are B15 SE-Rs really that cheap?

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/cto/4718280222.html

chrispy wrote: If you want an MK2 GTi, get a later one with a 16v, preferably with Digifant. CIS would be ok too, but parts get pricey, vacuum leaks are a PITA. If anything else fails, a replacement part can be found for $100 or less and parts are readily available. Get a Bentley manual and, with your truck build, there shouldn't be anything scary to diy. $1500 should get you a nice daily driver, rough would be sub $1000.

The only 16v's that got Digifant were the non-US ABF's (Digifant 3). All US versions used CIS (CIS-e on the 1.8, or CIS-Motronic on the 2L). I don't endorse Digi in any way as a swap onto a 16v to make it better (period). CIS can be made to work well, or source another inexpensive EFI option (MS, etc).

If you are "new" an 8v is a better bet and nearly indestructible.

So like this?

http://hickory.craigslist.org/cto/4706156471.html

Instead of MKII? MY answer.

EG Civic EX or Si.

Double wishbone, willing little motor, better interior then a lot of the competitors, insanely easy to work on, amazing parts availability.

Although honestly I like driving MKIIs but I can't comment on reliability.

chrispy wrote: If you want an MK2 GTi, get a later one with a 16v, preferably with Digifant. CIS would be ok too, but parts get pricey, vacuum leaks are a PITA. If anything else fails, a replacement part can be found for $100 or less and parts are readily available. Get a Bentley manual and, with your truck build, there shouldn't be anything scary to diy. $1500 should get you a nice daily driver, rough would be sub $1000.

IMHO CIS isn't that bad. It isn't that hard to work on. Of coarse that is a CIS system on an '84 Scirocco. Don't know if it changed a lot or not.

I've seen nothing but pain involved with German cars, it matters not the brand or where they were assembled. They won't use one part where ten will do and if you want real pull your hair problems wait till you get a CAN system problem. Parts get stupid expensive as well; yeah I know there's a lot of aftermarket but try this: see if you can find an aftermarket front or rear SAM module for a mid- 00's BMW or Mercedes (common failure for the lights a few posters have mentioned), then get back to me.

Gimme a riceburner or (gasp!) US made car any day. Japanese and later Korean cars stay together well, at 175k typically you don't know it till you look at the odometer. At the same mileage, American cars sound like a bunch of parts flying in very close formation or like they used a ruler to set the engine tolerances but they keep going.