spec camry: a build thread

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

The roll cage in that orange one is DANGEROUS!!!

I have an unfair advantage. All the Camrys here are own by an immigrant population that has taken up residence in the west metro. I couldn't touch a used one for cheap if I wanted to. ES300 on the other hand....

Javelin wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: The roll cage in that orange one is DANGEROUS!!!

Explain?

Pretty much any roll cage in any fixed roof car is dangerous unless you wear a helmet.

Otto Maddox wrote: Pretty much any roll cage in any fixed roof car is dangerous unless you wear a helmet.

Well... yeah.

The main hoop is way to close to the seat backs, there's NO padding on it at all, and the front down bar looks like it has a double-bend in it, which is a no-no. It's very obviously a "show" cage.

I'm pretty sure the hoop of my roll bar is even closer to my seat than that in my Miata.

I don't know much about cages, which is why i asked, but i also can't really recall a cage i've seen that didn't have a double bend up front like that? How else would you do it, out of curiosity?

I'm not doubting you... i'm pretty sure it's an Autopower bolt or weld in cage, i'd have to find the original build thread to verify.

(edit) Verified: Double bends are normal in club racers.

ah yes halftrac, that gen camry is the one i would prefer too. friends dad had a beige one with gold bbs wheels, apparently some sort of option.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: (edit) Verified: Double bends are normal in club racers.

Double bends are most certainly not normal (or even legal). You can have them the same direction (ie - the two 90's in the main hoop to make it a total of 180). What's not acceptable is when they change directions like these:

This looks like what the Camry has:

This is what you want:

Regardless, just the missing foam is enough to kill you many times over. That's just ignorant.

Thats actually quite useful. I was looking at it and going "I don't know what's wrong here, I see plenty of cages with curves in the same direction" However, S curves, I can see, because they'd accordion on impact.... and the last thing you want is to be dealing with a mangled jungle gym IN your car.

And the way you'd put the "correct" one in your car is to cut or remove the dash, which they didn't want to do on their show car.

Javelin wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: (edit) Verified: Double bends are normal in club racers.

Double bends are most certainly *not* normal (or even legal). You can have them the same direction (ie - the two 90's in the main hoop to make it a total of 180). What's not acceptable is when they change directions like these: This looks like what the Camry has: This is what you want: Regardless, just the missing foam is enough to kill you many times over. That's just ignorant.

LOL come on man.... do not use a Cusco horseE36 M3 cage to prove your point. Those cages are garbage for many other reasons.

Your second one is good, yes... That works for thru-dash, and mostly because it has a halo bar.

By "double bends" i mean more than one bend in one piece of pipe, that IS legal. Yes, in the same direction like you say, which is what i said from the beginning. Nobody said that "S" shapes were good ideas.

I agree with the foam, but what's in the Camry is "normal" for in-front-of-dash cages in club racing as told to me by a friend who has built a few cages.

I fail to see how you can tell the Camry cage design is dangerous without even being able to see anything past the door in that picture.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I fail to see how you can tell the Camry cage design is dangerous without even being able to see anything past the door in that picture.

I'm sorry, are you new here? We have a few... umm... "members" who just know more than anyone else. I believe you just met one.

I wish he hadn't deleted his site when he sold the car/tried to sell the car... there were pics of the cage install. It went straight down from that last bend you see in the door window. I believe he still had to cut his dash a bit.

Bobzilla wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I fail to see how you can tell the Camry cage design is dangerous without even being able to see anything past the door in that picture.

I'm sorry, are you new here? We have a few... umm... "members" who just know more than anyone else. I believe you just met one.

Wow, way to be a E36 M3 head man.

And yeah, it is pretty painfully obvious that that POS show car has an S-bend (sorry I couldn't remember the term right away, that's what I meant by double bend) "cage" that's not track legal, but don't let the cold hard truth cloud your utopic vision of how awesome you think you are.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: ...there were pics of the cage install. It went straight down from that last bend you see in the door window. I believe he still had to cut his dash a bit.

Even if true, it wouldn't be a great cage as that would put the front mounting pad on basically sheetmetal floorboard aft of the door opening. Most cages try and tie in at the front door frame for extra strength and rigidity, not to mention maximizing the space between the driver and the cage. Still doesn't change the no foam Ben. It's a show car cage pure and simple.

To the OP: Sorry for derailing your thread over such a pedantic stupid argument.

I'm convinced your judgement is just being clouded because it's both 1) A Toyota, and 2) A Camry.

But seriously.. there's no S-bend in that thing from what i remember watching the build thread 4-5 years ago.

If you can see one (because i can't.), point it out, draw an arrow or something. Otherwise, it's an assumption and not worth arguing about. We'll keep agreeing on the padding aspect. Fair enough?

Oops, nice ninja reply!

But yes, of course it's a show car. Nobody said otherwise. And he needs padding. Shut this bad boy down!

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I'm convinced your judgement is just being clouded because it's both 1) A Toyota, and 2) A Camry.

Nope. Bad cage is bad cage, period. I bitched the crap out of somebody with an AMX on the AMC board for the exact same thing. (And for a show car Camry, it's pretty neat, except the stupid cage.)

Like I said though, even if it had straight bars (which it really doesn't look like it does judging by the angle on top, but like you said we can't see it), they aren't going down to a good mounting point, which compromises the whole thing anyways.

Build it right or don't build it all.

Javelin wrote:

Bobzilla wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I fail to see how you can tell the Camry cage design is dangerous without even being able to see anything past the door in that picture.

I'm sorry, are you new here? We have a few... umm... "members" who just know more than anyone else. I believe you just met one.

Wow, way to be a E36 M3 head man. And yeah, it is pretty painfully obvious that that POS show car has an S-bend (sorry I couldn't remember the term right away, that's what I meant by double bend) "cage" that's not track legal, but don't let the cold hard truth cloud your utopic vision of how awesome you think you are.

Oh come off it. You've had your moments more than many here. This being one of them.

In reply to Javelin:

From the 2012 SCCA GCR: 9.4C1a

"FRONT HOOP 1. Roll cages may be of two designs, low front hoop or high front hoop. All closed top cars and cars that retain the windshield frame must have a high front hoop design. Open cars may incorporate a high or low front hoop design. High front hoop are also referred to as side hoops. a. Closed cars The front hoop (side hoop) must follow the line of the A-pillars to the top of the windshield and be connected by horizontal bars to the top of the main hoop on each side (as close to the roof as possible). Instead of a single front hoop, two side hoops (down tubes) may be used. Alternatively, a top “halo” hoop following the roof line from the main hoop to the windshield with forward down tubes following the A-pillars to the floor may be used. Regardless of which one of the two approved tubing configurations there shall be a tube connecting the two A-pillar tubes at the top of the windshield."

The bend # rules no longer apply.

and there it is. JAvelin is wrong.

thank you for the discussion on cage design. will not be caging my daily, though. sorry to disappoint y'all.

and thankls for the compliments. ill look into rack bushings.

are there end link upgrades other than fabbed heim joints?

In reply to mtownneon:

Again, I was talking about "S-bends". I just didn't know the proper terminology. Ben pointed it out for me. Sorry for the confusion.

In reply to Anti-stance:

DO IT!! its fun! and suprising with the results!

In reply to Adrian_Thompson: the springs are clocked right, but i dont have to old struts to comare to.

the top of the spring is a flat/ground end, not a pigtail. so they dont need to be clocked on that end.

im pretty sure they changed the spring perch height. after i get the front done and the new tires, ill cut until the stance is right.

and yes, it is a below the radar DD. which is the way i like em.