Speeding Tickets in PA - Advice Needed

Well, it happened. First speeding ticket, and it's a doozie.

In hindsight, obviously I shouldn't have been speeding, and should have been especially more wary of cops being out given that it was New Year's Eve... Just trying to get this out of the way, I know what I did was wrong and potentially dangerous.

Apparently I passed a cop right before a straight away (didn't see him obviously) and punched it on the straight away. He clocked me doing a decent amount over the speed limit (enough to have some point and potentially other . Gave me a ticket and told me that if I took it to court he would help me out as best he could.

• This was a state police officer.
• Ticket just says "Charge: Maximum Speed Limits" Section 3362, Subsection A3.
• Fines are $226.50

I'm ok with paying the fines, but given the amount of driving I do for my commute to work I don't want the points.

He said he'd try to help me out as best as he could if I took it to court, so obviously I should do that. I probably need an attorney of some sort, but my main question is how to respond to the summons. The ticket has a section to mail in, but it only gives the options to plead "NOT GUILTY and request a trail" or plead "GUILTY". He got me on radar, so I don't think there's much use in attempting to plead not guilty, obviously I was speeding, but is that the only way to get the trial?

I know that as long as I do everything in time I should be alright if I go to court, dress nicely, and continue to act respectfully. (the whole getting pulled over part was very smooth and respectful.)

I will also try calling the local Magisterial District on Monday or Tuesday and see what they say.

Edit: Looking a little closer the ticket says "If you are found guilty by the Magisterial Judge, or you plead guilty, and you wish to appeal, you have 30 days to file for an appeal for a trial in the Court of Common Pleas." I feel like what I need to do comes before it gets to this though. Not sure, like I said, I'll call the district once they open, and go from there, in the mean time if any of you have advice, I'd appreciate it.

Don't go to court, that's a sucker play. Send a lawyer...it's their job to go to court, and they will have a more favorable outcome without burning your time. It will cost you the same or a little more than just paying the ticket, but damn the man.

Look in to prepaid legal if you have a tendency to get these frequently. I pay <$20/mo and can just open a case and send a lawyer on demand. (Not just for speeding, but I've had lawyers represent me in 6 speeding tickets in the last few years. 5 of 6 were dismissed with court costs, nothing on my DMV record.)

You're going to pay the court costs either way. Many tickets are $20 fine and $180 in court costs these days.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. Save time and money, pay the fine and move on. The points will disappear after a set time period. The possibility of losing driving privileges will dissuade future lapse of judgement. That's what the point system is for.

Find out when the last time the radar gun was calibrated. Seriously, if it's past due, you won't make any law enforcement friends but that ticket won't mean anything. Also, can either of you prove he was following the letter of the law where he ran radar? State police are allowed to use mobile radar, but if he was parked, parking lights are a fun loophole to explore on top of location where he was running it at.

Other wise, pay the ticket and try for PennDot point dropping through a class or instruction setup.

If he really wanted to help you it would have been "failure to obey a posted traffic sign" $125 fine and no points or court date.

I don't know what the magistrates or cops are like on your side of the state, so I can't give you any specific information in that regard.

If it said "maximum speed" be happy you didn't get a reckless driving charge with it, that can be a killer.

I had a friend who was pulled over 5-10 times from age 18-23 and plead not guilty every time. Each time he would go into court talk to the officer before hand and all but one time had it reduced to a non points ticket. The time he was clocked going 83 in a 40 it was reduced to 15 over. All in PA.

In reply to Andy Neuman:

Thanks. That sounds pretty similar to my scenario, I'm just refraining from putting numbers online.

Yeah, definitely go to court. This is not the end of the world. I got caught doing 85 in a 55. Went to court and told the judge "yup, I was speeding. Anything you can do to help me out would be great. I really can't have points because of my job." (but, like, more polite). She ended up knocking it down to 10 over and no points. It kinda doesn't matter what the facts are. If you show up, are polite and gracious, things will probably be favorable for you. Most judges in traffic court just want to move through the docket with the least amount of drama. Speeding tickets are boring. That said, a lawyer is the best choice. Never trust a cop that he/she will "help you out" in anyway.

Don't get a lawyer and just go into court. Be respectful and polite, explain that it was your first offense and a stupid move. Every time I did this they cop reduced the ticket and I never saw any points on my license.And $226 is not bad. They tack on a ton of money for misc crap.

it is in the court's best interest to make it a non-points offense. If it is for speeding, they have to share some of it with the state. If it is for something without points, they get to keep all the money. A lawyer can get it changed to something like "failure to obey the directions of an officer" and keep the all the money "in town"

Do not plead guilty either in writing or in court. Once you confess, they have to charge you with that crime, as you've confessed to it. Go to court, ask the judge if you can plead guilty to a no point offense, and see what happens.

In reply to AWSX1686:

Go to court. Contest the speed at which you were clocked, if you can. If the officer does not appear at the hearing, the judge can reduce the fine or even throw out the ticket.

I live in PA. I've had tickets. He told you to take it to court, most likely, because he wants to bust it down to "failure to obey signage", which is less money and no points. It's a fairly common thing. The only way to get to a hearing is to plead "not guilty," so do that.

If you passed him while he was driving, he probably clocked you with his car. If he doesn't take away the points, and you want to actually fight the case, you can question him regarding the speedometer calibration (and ask him to produce the certificate), and ask him how long he clocked you for, and how long after that he pulled you over. I believe that he is required to clock you for a quarter mile, then pull you over immediately. You'll want to confirm that.

The most important thing to know is that the magisterial district receives half of the money from the ticket, and that district justices are elected officials. They are not always concerned with the actual law, and will tend to side with their coworkers the police and find you guilty as a matter of course. I fought a ticket once (got busted for causing an accident that was the other guy's fault), got found guilty by the cop's buddy the magistrate, and took it to county court, where an actual judge had to hear the case. After the judge heard the prosecution's case, he told my lawyer that he was ready to rule if he'd like to defer defense. The cop was so wrong that the judge spent 20 minutes educating him in open court. But the magistrate found me guilty.

Keep us posted, if you feel like it.

Later, Mike.

In reply to Moparman:

If the officer does not show and you plead not guilty, it gets thrown out as you can't face your accuser. I've seen people plead guilty and the judge ask them if they're sure since the officer is not there, and they still plead guilty. As stated above, once you plead guilty, you've confessed and there is no going back.

My failure to obey a traffic device was well over $300. No points though. Be glad your not in Texas.

my theory: cops pick the court day they are available to be there. Elect the court day, then request a change of the date. No cop present it gets tossed. Follow advice on polite and if contested by cop anyway ask for reduction to no points plea.

In reply to Andy Neuman:

Haha, that actually sounds a lot like me. I think I got something like a half dozen tickets between age ~17-22, several of which were in PA. My personal best was a 100 in a 65, but that one was in NY.

In reply to OP:

Plead not guilty!

I think I've fought all but the first one, using a number of strategies and with mixed results. You CAN do it yourself, especially if you have a reasonable leg to stand on in terms of a defense. As Rev mentions, the calibration date on the radar gun is an easy one to check. They should bring that documentation to court (if not, then you're off the hook.) If you really wanna get into it, you can download the PA vehicle code and read it for technicalities. No matter what though, be courteous and polite with the officer and Magistrate, make small talk beforehand if you have the opportunity. Honestly, the kind of mood they're in probably makes as much difference as anything.

That being said, if the alleged offense is more than 30-35 over the limit, I wouldn't berkeley around and hire a lawyer. Did that for my 100mph ticket (and one other as well) and got it knocked down to 20 over, which about halved the fines and negated the potential of a license suspension. Won't save you money up front most likely, but it's worth it not having the points, the lawyer pretty much guarantees some degree of success, and it's really the easy button, never have to show up in court.

30 over is 6 points IIRC, which I think gets you a hearing with PennDOT about a possible license suspension. There's the "special points examination" or something that knocks like 5 off but can only be done once ever I think, otherwise it should be 1 per year as long as you don't commit another offense.

Good luck!

It has been about 7 years since I last got a ticket but I have both gone to court and hired traffic lawyers with success. IMO, if you have the time and it's a relatively minor offense just plead not guilty and make use of some of the strategies above. The one time I got a lawyer I had a cop having a bad day throw the book at me (5-6 violations, probably two of which had any actual merit) and the lawyer got every single ticket thrown out. Never had to show in court or do anything other than fax over my tickets and write a $300 check, which was significantly cheaper than all of the tickets would have been.

I agree on requesting a date change. It makes it less likely that the trooper can show up.

Traffic court that I have been to (and I've been to plenty) is nothing like people think it is. Hire a lawyer and be done with it if it matters that much.

If you go in the by yourself, unless you're in the legal field, you're going to get railroaded. They don't take well to you trying to play a TV lawyers.

Definitely plea "not guilty" before the deadline is up. That's the only way you can get a court date.

Then you have two options. Either show up, be respectful to the Trooper and judge/prosecutor. If you have a clean record and are polite, they'll generally reduce the charges to non-points offenses.

Option 2 is just to hire a local traffic lawyer. Write them a check (for $500 or so) and let them deal with it. In some states (like NJ) you'll still have to go to court, but just sit there and look pretty while the lawyer does their thing. In other states (like NY) you don't need to show up at all.

In Connecticut, if you're not doing a ton over the limit, they have the option of "Pay the fine and get no points or insurance record". We're not raising taxes, but we're doing a heck of a job with the fees.

In most situations of a speeding ticket, I will plead not guilty.

If you plead guilty, you get the fine and the points. If you plead not guilty and fail, you get the fine and the points. Its cheap to get a trial. Don't bring a lawyer. I repeat. Don't bring a lawyer. Its ridiculous to bring a lawyer. It pisses off the judge and the cop, and its like killing a fly with a Howitzer. Just show up, be polite, don't challenge the officer and make claims about your actual speed, or reasons why you were in a hurry, let them dig first.

I'm no master at this, but I had my share of tickets in PA when I was younger. Show up, shut up, and let them talk first. There is a fair chance that the officer has already settled in his/her brain what lets you off the hook but still preserves their dignity. There is also a chance that the officer will stick to their guns, in which case you will have the opportunity to present your case and try to introduce doubt, but you'll likely be unsuccessful.

I had one in which the officer met me outside the courtroom first and offered "failure to yield to a stop sign" instead of what I had (which was something like "getting airborne across an intersection at 80 mph")

The truth is, the officer was out on patrol during a holiday trying to prevent drunk driving deaths when he/she could have been home watching the ball drop with their family, and they offered to help you during a hearing. That, to me, says "thank you for not being drunk tonight." It wouldn't hurt to acknowledge that if the context allows for it. A nice gesture of "listen, I know you were out there protecting us instead of kissing your loved one at midnight and I appreciate what you do" might be nice. You're both humans. If you approach it as man vs. man or plaintiff vs. defendant, you'll lose. If you approach it as "my bad, you were doing your job" it might grease the wheels. With all the holier-than-thou jerk cops that you could have driven past, you got a respectful one.

Best case scenario is you get a reduced charge. Worst case scenario is you get the full fine and points. If you sign "guilty" you don't have any chance of anything except the full ride.

Don't get me wrong... there were plenty of times I signed guilty because I just did it and I deserved the lumps, but it sounds like you have a good chance of getting it reduced, and you're already aware that you messed up. That is the point of giving tickets in teh first place.

Yep, pay the fine and get over it. He got you dead to rights and it's on radar. Here's my similar story and this is the way yours might go. I got a speeding ticket which was the first one in 25 years. I didn't think I was going as fast as the officer said I was because I was just checking a car out for a shimmy. I was super annoyed with myself for getting the ticket, but I figured just pay it get past it and move on. But about 2 weeks later I got a letter from the DOT that said they were suspending my license. I thought what, must be some mistake, one ticket in 25 years and they're taking my license. At that point I requested a hearing. At the hearing I found out the in Pa. speeding at twice the speed limit is an automatic loss of license. this was going to be hard to get over. I needed my license for work, I had a CDL. Here I was testing a car for a shimmy and was gradually increasing speed paying attention to the car and then I drove thru a 35mph speed zone and never gave it a thought. The officer had me on radar at 70mph. I was a little miffed at the officer because him knowing I had a CDL and needed my license to work and had no previous record, could have dropped that top speed to 69 and I would not have lost my license. The suspension was for 15 days, I had to pay the fine, pay for an on line correspondence course, and pay to get my license back. But then I also applied for an "Occupational Necessary Temporary License" where-by I could drive to work and drive on the job only. The whole thing cost me over $500 and I got the max points as well. You don't think I was driving on pins and needles for the next year. If I got anymore points I would lose my license again for even more time. There's no way around it pay the fine and get it over with. I do drive slower these days, but I still push my sports cars, but just a tesch more prudently. Of course the points are long gone.

I agree with Curt, only because everyone needs the experience at least once.

They don't care about the morality of teaching you a lesson, or due process. It's just a money game, and all about the quickest way to get your processed through and collect. The judge is just as likely to be more pissed because you're there.

I went to try defend one once...watched the two traffic lawyers in town get called up first with a ream of cases. They quietly conversed over in the corner with the judge and got a dispositions on all of them. Then the judge worked through the rest of the dregs of society (me in my coat and tie,) and promptly reamed us all.

You don't appear if you have a lawyer for court. It will probably cost you about $100 for them to show up, represent you, and get it reduced to 'equipment calibration/malfunction.' The traffic court lawyers have a relationship with everyone in the room..they're there at least once a week doing the same thing, over and over.

They will predict, with great accuracy, what your outcome will be. Then they will go to court for you and send you a letter with the outcome.

In reply to Tyler H:

Yep, gotta say that if it ever happened to me again I would send a lawyer in immediately. The fee is worth every cent versus the lost income from taking off of work and not really knowing how you're going to do at bat. And a lot of these guys seem to be friends with the judges and other court staff in their areas so it's easy peasy for them.