Sticker shock at the gas pump!

Mustang50 said:

In reply to STM317 :  Great charts, looks like you did a lot of research.  But look at 4 year segments, from 2016 to 2020 gas was relatively low.  From 2008 to 2016 prices (8 yrs.) were higher.  After Feb. 2021 gas prices increased at a dramatic rate.  Unfortunately government do affect our hobby and the suppliers who support us.

God Bless America and we pray for the victims in the Ukraine.

 

Politics are verbotten in these parts, so I'll keep this brief and vague:

The years you mentioned are when major elections were held, and not when leadership changed over. The politicians that won each of those elections took power the following year, and didn't actually start impacting policy for several months. So, I'm not seeing the clean and clear cause/effect that you seem to be as it relates to gas prices and leadership.

Moreover, this isn't a US specific issue that centers around 2016 and 2020. It's a global issue with all energy commodities because we live in a global economy controlled by global corporations. If the people in US leadership roles were the only aspect that went into this, or even a significant part of it, then the high prices would only be an issue in the US. This is a worldwide issue with all energy commodities. That's primarily due to the worldwide cartels and for-profit corporations that control the supply of these commodities.

I think the oil companies have crunched the numbers and decided to drill less and make more money selling less oil.

We are screwed.

In reply to STM317 :

Nice data set. It matches my impression that high $3 per gallon gasoline for my area is what I would consider normal given cost trends over a decade. 

I do find it interesting that gasoline, unlike electricity, hardline phones, potable water, and residential heating natural gas, remains rather unregulated as a utility at the point of user sale. Maybe, eventually, gasoline and some base hardline network for the internet will become considered to be utilities. Prices won't change much and even go up as regulation does require additional creation of valuable datasets for public oversite and controls. 

The star trek model of one planet seems to be directly at odds with the idea of capitalism as it is applied by many countries. Socialism and communism aren't bad if they are not corrupt. An excellent local government run school or municipal water department are great examples of current entities that have strong basis in the concept of democratic managed social and common good entities. There is a balance of all of these concepts and maybe gasoline is now a thing that should transition into a different management model.

Russia, a major supplier of world crude oil, declared war on a neighboring sovereign country and the price for WTI crude jumped from $66/barrel to $130/barrel in a few days.  That's more than doubled.  I think we should consider ourselves lucky that retailers didn't start profiteering and charging $7/gal.  

Elections and policy had nothing to do with it.  Civilians in the market did it.

Toyman! said:

In reply to frenchyd :

So, what you are saying is the bus company owners are screwing you out of half of your pay, suck at hiring people, pay E36 M3, do a crappy job, and they are saints at the same time. 

Where I come from, we call those E36 M3ty employers and nobody works for them. Sounds like they underbid the contract and are taking the profit out of your check. Why do you still work there?

/threadjack

Busses are not the answer in 95% of the country. Even the RTA local to me pretty much sucks at being on time and having actual useable routes. The downtown routes have decent coverage but it's faster to walk or bike. Their only decent routes are the express routes from outlying parking lots to downtown. Those busses are usually 50% full. The rest drive around with 3-4 passengers. 

I'm retired (semi) income from the bus pays for my toys and other choices. 
   I used to earn 6 figures with benefits and perks besides. Once you pass about 60 nobody wants to hire you figuring you're just going to hang on for a few years until retirement. 
     So decent jobs don't exist.  
    The people I work for pay me for what I do but can't afford to pay me to just hang around.  I hang around because it's an hour round trip and I  only have 2 hours at a time off.   Besides a charter might come up. And if it doesn't I stretch out between the seats and read or grab a nap. 
    I could make a couple of dollars more  an hour elsewhere  but refuse because those people have lied to me  and don't stand up for the drivers.  
  We have camera's on every bus.  When the camera's prove the student is wrong  or lied etc  nothing is done to the student but often the driver is punished.  
  These people try very hard to make things right and if the driver did it right and the student is out of line  there are consequences for the student.  ( besides this year I have great students) 

     The driver shortage is real.  We first must pass a background check. Then a driving record check, medical check,  finally 6 different written tests and 2   Tests regarding the bus. Plus further certification for SPED driving. Parents fail to understand  the reality.  Few would take on the responsibility for such a modest paycheck 

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

The graph kind of looks like the covid spikes too.....iirc oil hit -$40/barrel at the start.  So now with the world believing that's over and roaring back to life a major producer started a large war meaning demand is surging while is supply contracting.  The oil market is very inelastic meaning it takes a large price swing to make a small demand change, at least in the short term so BAM! go the prices.

The Land Cruiser I just bought to replace my Golf R gets significantly worse gas mileage, like 10mpg worse.  However I knew it did and I can suck up the additional cost per tank.  When the weather gets consistently nice here I've got other vehicles I can drive that get anywhere from low to mid 20's mpg to high 40's mpg. 

Someone already nailed the cause of this, Russia invading Ukraine and the fact that OPEC hasn't increased their oil production to pre Covid levels.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

 

Elections and policy had nothing to do with it.  Civilians in the market did it.

 

Unfortunately policy from the different administrations do affect the market. Shutting down future pipelines, drilling in the US and remaining energy independent do not align with low gas prices. If those EO's hadn't been signed last year, our starting price for this spike would have been lower, and the overall spike a little less severe. But that's just, like, my opinion man. 

One side wants to put charging stations for EVs everywhere. The other side wants to "drill baby drill". The best answer for the American consumer is to do both, but we don't get that choice at the ballot box. I wish our leaders were less polarized and more focused on helping out the average Joe.

We haven't driven anywhere since Friday and IIRC, the 7-11 right by our house was $3.09 for 87. I'm sure it's gone up since. That's here in NW OKC. 

$4.00 a gallon near my house in Dallas this morning. It went up 20 cents overnight.

bobzilla said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

 

Elections and policy had nothing to do with it.  Civilians in the market did it.

 

Unfortunately policy from the different administrations do affect the market. Shutting down future pipelines, drilling in the US and remaining energy independent do not align with low gas prices. If those EO's hadn't been signed last year, our starting price for this spike would have been lower, and the overall spike a little less severe. But that's just, like, my opinion man. 

Of course policies broadly affect parts of the market in the long term, but blaming a single administration for this acute, practically-overnight price spike is not realistic.  If you want to use exclusively domestic oil, be ready for a REAL sticker shock.

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

Went from 3.77 yesterday to 4.17 lol. 

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

that's every topic now. There are two options and if youre not on one side, youre against the other or some such nonsense.

I've said for decades that there is not one choice to solve our energy needs. Large cities and urban areas, electric cars will work well because you can build enough charging stations to handle the needs. Suburbia should have solar panels on rooftops, same with sky scrapers.Turn those windows into solar collectors. Wind farms on the plains. Even nuke powerplants can be used to generate the additional power that a few million EV and plug-in hybrid cars will add to the system. Rural areas and remote locales hyrids with ICE are going to be necessary for the long distances involved. And there will always be a place for efficient ICE cars/trucks. 

This fallacy that this can all be fixed if everyone buys an electric car is idiotic. A.) there aren't enough EV's for sale to cover that need, 2.) the infrastructure is just not there to support that kind of fas change over right now(California has been having rolling blackouts for a decade due to a lack of generation ability) and iii.) EV isn't the answer for everyone. 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

bobzilla said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

 

Elections and policy had nothing to do with it.  Civilians in the market did it.

 

Unfortunately policy from the different administrations do affect the market. Shutting down future pipelines, drilling in the US and remaining energy independent do not align with low gas prices. If those EO's hadn't been signed last year, our starting price for this spike would have been lower, and the overall spike a little less severe. But that's just, like, my opinion man. 

Of course policies broadly affect parts of the market in the long term, but blaming a single administration for this acute, practically-overnight price spike is not realistic.  If you want to use exclusively domestic oil, be ready for a REAL sticker shock.

Exactly.  This isn't a supply problem.  It's not even a supply disruption problem (no Russian crude has gone off line, the US has just decided not to import any but the oil is still out there).  This is a market disruption, and prices will stabilize when the speculators are through profit-taking (once conditions are no longer as volitile).  Unless world leaders decide to nationalize oil supplies and start price-fixing, the global energy markets will set the prices as they see fit. 

yupididit said:

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

mtn said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

JG Pasterjak said:

Until people stop buying 3/4-ton pickups to commute with I'm not going to take them seriously when they complain about gas prices that are still substantially cheaper than most of the world. Yeah, towing to events is going to sting a bit more this year, but my Prius is going to only use about $12 more in gas every month. Sure I drive less than the average bear, but the point is there's good tools out there to combat higher fuel prices by increasing travel efficiency, but too much of the driving public refuses to use them.

I agree, but I think you'll find that most people have those trucks for a reason. 

Nah. I'd wager that 90% of truck owners would be better off with a minivan and a 4x8 folding trailer for the 3 times a year they need it open. 

And 50% could be served by a moped, weather permitting.

Most could take public transportation for commuting needs but noooo you gotta have a car that you don't NEED. 

To address a couple of different comments quoted, you don't even need the Minivan and the trailer since you can just rent a truck from multiple places, including many of the hardware stores. 

Outside of the few largest cities, public transportation isn't a viable option. When I lived in downtown Tulsa, the main bus depot was close (about a 15 minute walk), but the only bus stop was still more than a mile from where I worked and would mean walking down a service road with no sidewalk. So a 15 minute commute each way turns into more than an hour each way, ignoring how dangerous it would be to have walked twice a day down a 55mph-limit, 2 lane road with no sidewalk. 

Here in OKC, before they closed our office, even though it was only 5.5 miles away, taking public transportation would again turn a short commute into a long one since the closest bus stop is about 1.5 miles away..............again with no sidewalks. 

z31maniac said:

Outside of the few largest cities, public transportation isn't a viable option. When I lived in downtown Tulsa, the main bus depot was close (about a 15 minute walk), but the only bus stop was still more than a mile from where I worked and would mean walking down a service road with no sidewalk. So a 15 minute commute each way turns into more than an hour each way, ignoring how dangerous it would be to have walked twice a day down a 55mph-limit, 2 lane road with no sidewalk. 
 

If Tulsa traffic is still anything like it was in the 90's when I lived there, I don't think you'd survive one day doing that.

z31maniac said:

yupididit said:

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

mtn said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

JG Pasterjak said:

Until people stop buying 3/4-ton pickups to commute with I'm not going to take them seriously when they complain about gas prices that are still substantially cheaper than most of the world. Yeah, towing to events is going to sting a bit more this year, but my Prius is going to only use about $12 more in gas every month. Sure I drive less than the average bear, but the point is there's good tools out there to combat higher fuel prices by increasing travel efficiency, but too much of the driving public refuses to use them.

I agree, but I think you'll find that most people have those trucks for a reason. 

Nah. I'd wager that 90% of truck owners would be better off with a minivan and a 4x8 folding trailer for the 3 times a year they need it open. 

And 50% could be served by a moped, weather permitting.

Most could take public transportation for commuting needs but noooo you gotta have a car that you don't NEED. 

To address a couple of different comments quoted, you don't even need the Minivan and the trailer since you can just rent a truck from multiple places, including many of the hardware stores. 

Outside of the few largest cities, public transportation isn't a viable option. When I lived in downtown Tulsa, the main bus depot was close (about a 15 minute walk), but the only bus stop was still more than a mile from where I worked and would mean walking down a service road with no sidewalk. So a 15 minute commute each way turns into more than an hour each way, ignoring how dangerous it would be to have walked twice a day down a 55mph-limit, 2 lane road with no sidewalk. 

Here in OKC, before they closed our office, even though it was only 5.5 miles away, taking public transportation would again turn a short commute into a long one since the closest bus stop is about 1.5 miles away..............again with no sidewalks. 

These types of responses really bother me with their closed and narrow mindedness. Most of the counry doesn't have reliable public transportation. Not everyone lives in a city. Or where it's above freezng year round. Or close to their jobs etc. Trying to pigeon hole this problem on a specific subset of humanity is silly. Hell it's not even realistic. 

There's just so much wrong with 4 of those responses.... It would take days to address.

eastsideTim said:

z31maniac said:

Outside of the few largest cities, public transportation isn't a viable option. When I lived in downtown Tulsa, the main bus depot was close (about a 15 minute walk), but the only bus stop was still more than a mile from where I worked and would mean walking down a service road with no sidewalk. So a 15 minute commute each way turns into more than an hour each way, ignoring how dangerous it would be to have walked twice a day down a 55mph-limit, 2 lane road with no sidewalk. 
 

If Tulsa traffic is still anything like it was in the 90's when I lived there, I don't think you'd survive one day doing that.

I'm sure it is, but I've been in OKC for just over 5 years now and the drivers here are even worse. I've never lived anywhere, or driven anywhere, where people treat running red lights like a sport. I'm sure that's because OKC is so spread out, 2nd or 3rd largest city in the country by area, but only 20th in population. 

In reply to z31maniac :

Sounds about right.  I remember the governor doing PSAs on the radio telling people to stop at red lights.  I also remember the green left arrow generally meant clear the entire left turn line, even after the light turned red.  If you stopped, the car behind you would probably hit you.

bobzilla said:

z31maniac said:

yupididit said:

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

mtn said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

JG Pasterjak said:

Until people stop buying 3/4-ton pickups to commute with I'm not going to take them seriously when they complain about gas prices that are still substantially cheaper than most of the world. Yeah, towing to events is going to sting a bit more this year, but my Prius is going to only use about $12 more in gas every month. Sure I drive less than the average bear, but the point is there's good tools out there to combat higher fuel prices by increasing travel efficiency, but too much of the driving public refuses to use them.

I agree, but I think you'll find that most people have those trucks for a reason. 

Nah. I'd wager that 90% of truck owners would be better off with a minivan and a 4x8 folding trailer for the 3 times a year they need it open. 

And 50% could be served by a moped, weather permitting.

Most could take public transportation for commuting needs but noooo you gotta have a car that you don't NEED. 

To address a couple of different comments quoted, you don't even need the Minivan and the trailer since you can just rent a truck from multiple places, including many of the hardware stores. 

Outside of the few largest cities, public transportation isn't a viable option. When I lived in downtown Tulsa, the main bus depot was close (about a 15 minute walk), but the only bus stop was still more than a mile from where I worked and would mean walking down a service road with no sidewalk. So a 15 minute commute each way turns into more than an hour each way, ignoring how dangerous it would be to have walked twice a day down a 55mph-limit, 2 lane road with no sidewalk. 

Here in OKC, before they closed our office, even though it was only 5.5 miles away, taking public transportation would again turn a short commute into a long one since the closest bus stop is about 1.5 miles away..............again with no sidewalks. 

These types of responses really bother me with their closed and narrow mindedness. Most of the counry doesn't have reliable public transportation. Not everyone lives in a city. Or where it's above freezng year round. Or close to their jobs etc. Trying to pigeon hole this problem on a specific subset of humanity is silly. Hell it's not even realistic. 

There's just so much wrong with 4 of those responses.... It would take days to address.

I'm absolutely positive my response was sarcasm and I'm pretty positive Pete's comment was sarcasm as well. 

In reply to yupididit :

You'd be some of the few. Many people want to further seperate "factions" it seems.It's getting tiresome.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Russia, a major supplier of world crude oil, declared war on a neighboring sovereign country and the price for WTI crude jumped from $66/barrel to $130/barrel in a few days.  That's more than doubled.  I think we should consider ourselves lucky that retailers didn't start profiteering and charging $7/gal.  

Elections and policy had nothing to do with it.  Civilians in the market did it.

Just have to point out that your 2 paragraphs completely contradict each other. Civilians did nothing that made this jump 100% in a week, and some retailers are gouging at $7/gal as noted in this thread.

We filled up the truck (!gasp!) for $3.45/gal in Topeka on Sunday, haven't looked since. Meh

Side note: We use our truck for truck things probably 30 times a year. Is that not worth having a truck to all you people who know better? I feel like we might need a thread so we can all pick vehicles for each other, based on limited info and personal opinions. /

llysgennad said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Russia, a major supplier of world crude oil, declared war on a neighboring sovereign country and the price for WTI crude jumped from $66/barrel to $130/barrel in a few days.  That's more than doubled.  I think we should consider ourselves lucky that retailers didn't start profiteering and charging $7/gal.  

Elections and policy had nothing to do with it.  Civilians in the market did it.

Just have to point out that your 2 paragraphs completely contradict each other. Civilians did nothing that made this jump 100% in a week, and some retailers are gouging at $7/gal as noted in this thread.

We filled up the truck (!gasp!) for $3.45/gal in Topeka on Sunday, haven't looked since. Meh

Side note: We use our truck for truck things probably 30 times a year. Is that not worth having a truck to all you people who know better? I feel like we might need a thread so we can all pick vehicles for each other, based on limited info and personal opinions. /

Side note to your side note:  We have those all the time!  There's almost always a "what car?" thread in the first two pages of Latest Topics!

In reply to wae :

True. But those people are asking for it.