Subaru sleeper - guide me, oh wise ones

I'm in the market for a utility (wagonish) vehicle with a cheap ($3kish) buy-in and potential for sleeperish awesomeness. My understanding is that Subies are like Lego in that one can plug W motor into X transmission on Y chassis with Z suspension and everything works together happily.

I have a vision of a Legacy wagon or early Forester with a breathed-on STi motor and rally suspension (for stock ride height and maximum sleepiness) looking for all the world like a suburban liberal mom-wagon but going like stink. I'm planning on NPR, Greenpeace and "Coexist" bumper stickers for effect.

Tell me what's wrong with this dream, and/or where I should start. I'm on the fence about whether the platform should be a Legacy or Forester. I have only one criterion - pre-'96 (pre-OBDII) vehicles don't require an emissions inspection in MO, and if I'm screwing with the motor to the extent I plan for this build, I'm pretty sure I'd rather forgo the emissions check.

So, learn me Scoobies.

Not sure why anyone would have any love for the Subaru engine? My perception is that they are much more complicated than a 4 cylinder needs to be, hard to work on and they self-destruct a lot and are expensive to repair.

The engine they put in their Halo cars (The Toyobaru Twins) certainly do nothing to counter this perception in my mind.

Well if you want pre-96, that takes a Forester out. They didn't exist then, so you could get a Legacy wagon, or an Impreza hatch.

With your guidelines I would go the old square bodied Legacy (91-94) with a JDM STi motor.

That Gen of Leggy can take an Impreza rally suspension as a bolt-in, if I recall correctly.

I would do a flat 6 swapped legacy wagon.

As of a few months ago this one was for sale again, it is a 97 though.

In reply to EvanB:

If it is running stock management, it will likely pass emissions.

Also, St. Louis is the only place I know of in MO that does emissions. Maybe KC. Not here in Central MO though.

For a sweet Subaru Wagon build. Check out Gramps (not Super Gramps) build on Mighty Car Mods. 3.6l Tribeca engine, 6 speed, and a huge turbo into a mid 90s Legacy Wagon.

What kind of emissions test do you guys have? If it's just a tailpipe sniffer I'd go with a newer model and add a catalytic. You get a more sleeperish exhaust note and it smells better.
Id really consider swapping a newer H6 into the most recent Forrester/Legacy/Impreza wagon you can afford. The stock 2.5's pop head gaskets so craigslist should turn up some sub 1k starting points.
Stock ride height with fresh stock springs and shocks, good tires on no taller than 17" wheels, a fat rear swaybar, and roughly a degree of negative camber made our '03 WRX the most fun city street bomber we've had. Bumps and potholes mid corner? Who cares- not this car, go faster!

Lol,beat me to it! Lots o H6 love.

In reply to singleslammer:

According to the sale ad it has EGR delete and ecutune chip.

I found last years sale ad and noticed that it is the EG33 motor. That isn't going to be as clean as the EZ30/36 that started in 01 or 02. I really want to do this with an 05 or 06 (No CAN BUS) but that isn't likely to happen soon as I just got a new car .

I must run with the wrong crew. Everyone I know loves their Subaru 4s. My best friend's is turning 225K miles. It's got a minor oil leak and 2nd gear grinds if you power shift, but otherwise another happy customer.

What you want is a 2004 forrester xt. STi engine with a smaller turbo. STi suspension bits all bolt in.

You're welcome.

I have the 2004 Forester XT. It is exactly what you are looking for, and tuning one for use with a bigger turbo etc. is all fairly well documented. Tuned properly, it can pass an OBDII plugin inspection making mad horsepower.

One showed up at the Ultimate Track Car Challenge and did pretty well, from what I remember. That one wasn't even tuned as crazy as one could go.

http://www.ebaymotorsblog.com/competing-to-be-the-best-at-the-ultimate-track-car-challenge/

The local shop that lets me use their dyno has 12 Subaru boost buggies in for engine rebuilds right now. 12.

Appleseed wrote: What you want is a 2004 forrester xt. STi engine with a smaller turbo. STi suspension bits all bolt in. You're welcome.

This really is the "easy button" if you want easy.

As a side note one of my former students cars.

Hmmm, I guess that Factory Five didn't do their homework.

Also look into legacy SS. EJ22 engine closed deck, obd1. if someone doesnt know what they have , they can go cheap. A buddy has one and dropped the motor in a legacy wagon. its not showcar worthy which adds to the sleeper appeal and goes like hell.

My brother also has a 2004 forester xt. anything you can do to a wrx/sti , you can do to this. Plus its practical with the trunk and all. The kind of power my brother makes for what hes invested made me give up chasing power in my audi. Just didnt seem worth it from a $/hp standpoint.

I "think" that Subaru fixed a lot of the 4 cylinder issues on the flat 6 engines (specifically the EZ units used in the 2000s). They have a lot of similarities but a few distinct differences that seem to lend to better longevity.

yeah, i'd stay away from any subaru 4 cylinder. There aren't literally hundreds of thousands of them that have provided literally hundreds of thousands of trouble-free miles of propulsion without exploding into a firey ball of internet hate.

Pre-'94 or '96 EJ22's are non-interference and are notorious for being Energizer Bunnies. Can't speak for any of the other 4's, but the 22 is solid. 300k+ on mine, and the last 50k have been HARD miles.

Bolt on EJ25 dual port heads, add turbo or supercharger (I seem to remember the one used in the Pontiac GXP was preferred... Eaton M62), upgrade fuel injectors, profit.

I would probably start with a Forester XT and just apply the reasonable WRX mods. They are amazing sleepers, and with a 4.44 final drive (vs the 3.90 in most North American turbo cars), accelerate much harder than you would expect from a dumpy toaster.

With a boost pill change you're already running a faster quarter than a contemporary WRX. You can go from there with STI take-offs.

Suspension-wise, you can apply most of the mods for WRX wagons, and you can get some pretty good cornering out of them. I have seen some that have been ruined by applying cheap coilovers and sedan-specific parts (the track widths are different) without compensation but you can go a long way with just thinking about what you are doing before you do it.

Prices on FXTs have always trended above those of WRXes, but in exchange you do get a slightly higher chance of the car not having been owned by a dudebro previously.

Access inside the engine bay isn't quite as nice; because of the way that the Forester is lifted over its Impreza platform cousin, you often have to work around some tight spaces for stuff like spark plugs that are much easier on the Imprezas.

In reply to rcutclif:

The naturally aspirated models are just fine. Apply boost and they aren't up to the task. He's looking for a sleeper, which would mean no N/A Subaru engines. Thus, comments about reliability apply.

DaveEstey wrote: The local shop that lets me use their dyno has 12 Subaru boost buggies in for engine rebuilds right now. 12.

That is because Subaru's are easy to tune and by extension - easy to tune poorly. You would not believe the number of threads where kids throw exhausts and intakes on Subaru's and can't understand that changing the flow dynamics on a turbo car requires that you tune them.

If you don't run around insisting on pumping out 500 Hp out of 2.0 or 2.5L, they can run very reliably.

I drove my WRX for 3 years on a simple Cobb OTS Stage 1 map and it is still going strong. In fact it is likely heading for a 4th owner soon. The guy who bought it from me found a high-mileage BMW wagon he wanted more.

There is quite a bit of discussion on a number of boards that Subaru's stock tunes, in an effort to meet emissions requirements, are very iffy. Especially on the newer STi's. Personally I would stick with the WRX's.

DaveEstey wrote: In reply to rcutclif: The naturally aspirated models are just fine. Apply boost and they aren't up to the task. He's looking for a sleeper, which would mean no N/A Subaru engines. Thus, comments about reliability apply.

I mostly agree with you.

And to be clear, my comment was not directed specifically at you, but rather I was thrashing a bit because I seem to feel so much subaru and VW boo-hiss bandwagoning here recently.

Aren't we the group that can make anything faster/better/more reliable? Why would we not even try?

Once built the Subaru engines are quite reliable.

My Legacy GT blew up on a Cobb Stage 1 tune at 66k miles

alex wrote: "Coexist" bumper stickers

I prefer this version.