I'm a big fan of the S2K. My brother owned one for a few years but anything north of 15 minutes in the drivers seat on a humdrum commute was tedious, if you had some twisty roads thrown into the mix I could potentially see it being a fun swap.
I'm a big fan of the S2K. My brother owned one for a few years but anything north of 15 minutes in the drivers seat on a humdrum commute was tedious, if you had some twisty roads thrown into the mix I could potentially see it being a fun swap.
I've owned an AP1 so I'll say go for it. Only downside is, if it's at a dealer, you probably will be losing some equity somewhere along the line (either on what they give you for the WRX or in what they are selling you the S2k for).
EDIT: found it
I am pretty sure you won't miss the torque of the WRX...
Can't S2000s are bliss on wheels
ProDarwin wrote:Bobzilla wrote: no torqueWait, doesn't your Kia have a fair amount of torque? 167lb-ft from the factory. And the S2000 makes 162lb-ft from the factory. Doesn't seem like a huge discrepancy.
You're falling into the trap of looking at peak numbers. The S2K makes that peak torque at 6k. At 2k it's making under 100... the Forte is making 140. IT's also making 160+ at 4k, and at 6k its still making 140. The s2k makes it all up top which makes a very different driving feel. It's why I've never liked how Hondas deliver power. Sure, you get a 20lbft bump when vtec kicks in at 6k. But you have to GET to 6k first.
I know I'm the lone dissenting voice. He didn't come here to be talked out of it. He'd made his mind up before he even took the car in to get fixed to start with.
In reply to Bobzilla:
Are your Forte numbers (with 20% more displacement) at the wheels and stock, like your selectively chosen S2K number? What happens when you compare them on a more equivalent percentage-of-redline basis, as the S2k's steeper gearing would allow for in the real world?
You also seem to be looking only at peak torque RPM when stating that the S2k makes "all of it up top", even though it actually has a very broad/flat torque curve (with just a mild step up in the middle) across a greater rpm range than most cars even have access to...Which is actually a rather impressive feat.
Generally speaking, I do agree that more torque is more rewarding for most people most of the time...However, you seem to be arguing against a 2.0L for being similar to any other 2.0L at lower rpm's, even though it's also capable of far more overall at any given moment.
Sorry, Google showed about 30 different dynos charts in their image search and the vast majority (non-boosted) were in the high 140's peak power, some making 110tq and some at less than 100 at the wheels at 2-4k. You're right, that is relatively flat and extremely weak IMO. It makes up for it by being able to rev to the moon and making hp up there. I've driven the S2K (both AP1 and AP2) and it's not my thing. I prefer low to midrange power and not needing to ring out the motor to make it move.
Extremely weak in what way though?...Are there many naturally aspirated 2.0L engines making significantly more torque than the S2K in the 2k-4k rpm range? Or do the vast majority of naturally aspirated 2.0L engines simply not have enough low rpm torque for you personally?
Driven5 wrote: Extremely weak in what way though?...Are there many naturally aspirated 2.0L engines making significantly more torque than the S2K in the 2k-4k rpm range? Or do you simply not consider virtually any naturally aspirated 2.0L engines to have enough low rpm torque?
Very few small displacement engines have good low and midrange. The only one I can think of would be the Beta II 2.0L. Makes nohp, but the midrange power was always there. There wasn't a need to do 2 and 3 gear downshifts to get the engine into it's happy range. I got spoiled by TBI GM V8's that were all torque and no hp. I like having power on tap at low rpms. That's why I enjoy the Koreans so much. They don't make their power all up top like Honda and Toyota. They make it in the middle where you spend 95% of your time.
Its why I never liked the original RSX-S. Sure, it was fast if you wound it up. But if you drove like a normal human on a normal street it felt like a dog. I shouldn't have to flog an engine to make it do something.
EDIT: high rpm engines are fun to play with. But to live with daily not so much for me. If it is a track toy absolutely. If its a daily, I'll take half the rpms and midrange.
You live in Florida! You need an AWD vehicle like you need a heated driveway. Life is short. Get the S2000!
Or.. test drive some other fun options: MX-5, Boxster, etc. Buy the one that creates the most smiles.
I'd do it. I really like my FRS but every time I see an S2k drive by I'm jealous.
You already have 2 family haulers and live in FL. S2K, hands down.
You came here thinking people would talk you out of buying an S 2000. 8 years here and you thought that might happen, really?
Toebra wrote: You came here thinking people would talk you out of buying an S 2000. 8 years here and you thought that might happen, really?
Lol nope just needed reinforcement. Bobzilla called me out on it twice already :).
I actually called a dealer about 2 hours away (about an hour away from GRM HQ) and put a deposit down on a low mileage one yesterday. Took a half day off work drove up there to be there the same time this dealer opened. Didn't see the car on the lot, figured they kept it in service or it was in detail. Salesman goes to look for the car can't find it, he comes back with the sales manager and I get this line "We have an employee from another store who's interested in the car but doesn't know if they want to buy it. The car is at their house right now and they are trying to decide, can you wait?" I was furious, absolutely livid. 1) Because I put a deposit down. 2) Because I wasted 4 hours of vacation time plus time lost from waking up early and missing my AM workout to drive up there. C) Look at 1 and 2.
I eventually take the rest of the day off work as they offered me a ND Miata to drive around until they confirmed what in the actual duck was going on. Went to lunch with some friends in that town and thoroughly enjoyed driving the ND. I was impressed with everything about it except the 4th gen F-body rattles and the fact the model I was driving cost more than a Base STI. Super impressed with the chassis, the engine, everything. They tried selling me on the car. I had to leave to get some work done.
I still have the WRX. I am still pissed. And yea I was losing about $1.5k in equity when all was said and done between dealer fees, title fees, and negative equity from a trade. Well I would have been. Shart happens. Still on the hunt.
In reply to Bobzilla:
So basically you prefer engines that (for a given displacement) give the illusion of a strong low end due to a weak top end, over the illusion of a weak low end due to a strong top end.
Driven5 wrote: In reply to Bobzilla: So basically you prefer engines that give the illusion of a strong low end due to a weak top end, over the illusion of a weak low end due to a strong top end.
Basically: I don't like being forced to row the gears a lot to make the car move. When I can roll on the throttle on 6th gear at 70mph and hang with my friends AP1 dropping a gear and doing the same... I'm more than happy. I'm in hte meat of my torque curve ALL THE TIME. 2k to 6k it's making 80%+ of it's total torque, I'm happy. Hell, I loved the L98 the best. I swear you could roll on the throttle in 4th gear at 20mph and still light the tires. 340ft-lbs of torque is amazing even if it runs out of bretah at 4500.
How much corvette does that trade in get you? That seems like a good way to go in Florida.
Also, if you don't like the exhaust on the WRX look into the cheap Nameless Performance axleback. I went with the 5" muffler because old and wished I got the shorter or no muffler version. The sound improvement was still huge compared to stock. It might make you feel different about the car enough that you want to keep it. The no muffler version is only $300. Seems like a better way to go before losing all that money trading in cars.
Being able to get away with a 2 seat car as the DD is a sign that you are living life properly.
NOHOME wrote: Being able to get away with a 2 seat car as the DD is a sign that you are living life properly.
That's how I feel too.
Having driven both . . . do you care about a car that you want to drive or do you want a transportation appliance?
Best solution is get S2000 and with the extra $ buy an appliance - or lease one - my beater (2016 Jetta 1.4t manual) is $155/mo - an acceptable rental rate to be able to drive interesting cars as well.
Why in the world would I try to talk you out of that trade?
Groats wrote: How much corvette does that trade in get you? That seems like a good way to go in Florida. Also, if you don't like the exhaust on the WRX look into the cheap Nameless Performance axleback. I went with the 5" muffler because old and wished I got the shorter or no muffler version. The sound improvement was still huge compared to stock. It might make you feel different about the car enough that you want to keep it. The no muffler version is only $300. Seems like a better way to go before losing all that money trading in cars.
It could get me into a cheaper C6 or C5 Z06. The problem is that I grew up with my parents always having Corvettes. My mom has a Z51 C6 (6-speed at that) they don't live far away. If I want to Corvette I call her up and swap cars and she gets my car+grandchildren for the day and I get the Corvette. Plus being canned by GM twice in my life because of their own financial shortcomings has left a sour taste in my mouth. I'm in a better place now anyways.
Mister Fister (Army Fister or Fiesta ST Fister?) I have a 2010 Honda Fit Sport right now for appliance duties.
NOHOME: CONCUR
Bobzilla: Flat torque curve is awesome in the WRX. Nothing like being in 6th gear and still being able to pass someone on the highway. At least you mentioned how horrible TPI/L98s intake manifolds are.
Groats: I had a nameless 4inch muffler axle back on my STI. Transferred it onto this WRX. I didn't like how it sounded at all on the WRX. Too much D15 Honda Civic fartcan noise. The waste gate crackle shifting at 5500rpm from 1st to 2nd was awesome though. Their customer service is complete garbage as well to ever want to do business with them again. I paid for one, waited through two batches of shipments, never got it, asked for a refund and got some excuse that they already ordered the raw materials and they could only refund me half of the payment. So they got some nice words and I eventually got the exhaust 6-7 months after initial purchase. It was a quality exhaust, just wasn't worth the hassle.
Anyone know how well these things hold up with turbines? Diff is the weakest link right?
Argghhh found a snail powered S2k but man that's a risky buy. And a AP2 with over 100k on the clock but way easier on the check book because of an accidente.
Wife wants turbo one. Conscience says bone stock one. Deep conscience says wait for Civic Type R.
DirtyBird222 wrote: Argghhh found a snail powered S2k but man that's a risky buy. And a AP2 with over 100k on the clock but way easier on the check book because of an accidente. Wife wants turbo one. Conscience says bone stock one. Deep conscience says wait for Civic Type R.
because a boosted FWD hatchback is comparable to a RWD NA convertible . . . . .
DirtyBird222 wrote: Anyone know how well these things hold up with turbines? Diff is the weakest link right?
My understanding is the motor itself is super stout. Many have put well over 500 to the wheels without opening up the motor. http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/950127-800hp-stock-block-s2000/
I know diff/trans are weak... but I am curious how much power they will hold and for how long. Can one do track days with a 300whp car without too much worry? Because that would rock.
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