"Talking Him Down" What does that mean, exactly?

If I'm ever going to do things like LeMons or the Challenge successfully, I'm gonna have to get better at wheeling and dealing with private sellers. The only times I've gotten good deals on cars, they were free gifts from loved ones. Every time I've tried to go buy something interesting, I always either

A) Spend way too much money to buy someone else's problem. B) Make a reasonable offer that is refused.

Are there tricks to getting someone to sell a car for what it's actually worth? Or is it just a matter of timing? Are there special things you need to say to someone who is selling a ridiculously overpriced car? Things that will make them sell for the actual value?

How do you go about telling someone that the car they're selling for $1200 is actually worth $200 and get them to believe you? Because that $1200/$200 thing happens a lot with used cars.

Do you inspect the car and then tell the guy every single little thing that's wrong with it and then make a lowball offer?

Do you try to be all buddy buddy with him and make friends for half an hour, then casually mention what you actually want to pay?

Do you show up with a trailer and a big angry dog on a chain that's "just a big softie really", and get the guy all anxious so he accepts your offer just to get you out of his life?

Do you walk up and give it the once over, name a sum, hand the guy a piece of paper with an offer and a phone number on it, and then leave? And then go home and wait?

I really don't have a strong grasp on practical psychology. Maybe I need to read more of those sales books that tell you how to A-B close people and E36 M3. I don't seem to have a natural grasp of this sort of thing, so I guess I have some stuff to learn. And I don't mind paying 3.5K for a nice car that's worth 3K nearly as much as I mind paying $800 for yard art that's worth maybe a hundred. If I'm buying a project, I want to pay that hundred, because that's all most projects are worth in raw form.

Anybody care to throw a dog a clue?

I always used to wonder how grmers managed get such amazing deals on cars. My trick is just to offer what you think it is worth. you would be amazed at what kind of offers people will take. My first car was an all track camry, my second an extremely reliable topaz, my third was an turbo sprint and my fifth was another turbo sprint, and all were purchased for $300 or less. I havent had my licence for a year yet, and i am almost managing a car a month, with not a single one self destructing. Another thing that helps is knowing what the common problems with the particular car are, and then pointing them out. Its worked for me consistently.

Very cool, thank you.

I've noticed a lot of people mention two things. Finding motivated sellers, and making an offer and walking away. The first one seems to be a kind of knack some, but not all, people have, and the second is great when you really don't care, but doesn't help when you want the car but know you shouldn't pay anywhere near the asking price.

Though sometimes people seem to think the value of their car is equal to the value of something else they plan to buy with the money from the car. I wonder how to get past that.

It's a wierd market right now, and people seem to be insanely overpricing thier junk because they need $X to make a mortgage payment or something, so they price the car at $X. I wonder how to work with that.

Also, I wish all the Turbo Sprints around here hadn't rusted away long ago, because one of those would be cool. I was driving a Metro and enjoying it when gas was a buck, so a Turbo Metro would be fun.

I find that leaving your number with an optimistic seller is also a good idea. At first they may be determined not to budge on price, but after you leave, (and perhaps after others inspect the car and also turn it down), you may find the seller will call you back with a realistic offer. That's how I bought my last car, anyway.

It highly depends on the seller!

Some guy's allready know every little thing that wrong and get pissed off if you go down the list. This is where the "Knack" of the deal comes in. Sometimes your better off to name the big ones and say X,Yand Z plus a few smaller items.

I've had to escort buyer out after they wasted my time listing and cutting my price in half. Piss me off i toss'em out. There all ways some other buyer out there. One guy got me so mad that as i was walking him to the door he offerd asking price i said no go away.

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Yea, a whole lot depends on the seller. Generally speaking, a seller who just put an item up for sale isn't willing to negotiate downwards much. Especially if they think they are selling a treasure.

My usual tactic is to spend time with the seller, not the item. Chat them up in general, and then about the item. No mention of asking price, just discussing the fun they've had with the item. Make sure you relate to the story and ingrate yourself to them.

You want them to see you with the item. You want them to want you to have the item.

Lightly and carefully start touching on the item in conversation. About it's condition and needs. And about how poor you are.

Keep going back and forth between these things, and let them start taking themselves down on price. When they start saying things like "negotiable", and " well...", you're doing real well.

Lastly, recognize the ones that are impossible. The delusional ones that there really isn't any reasoning with. The car was stolen, torched, and stripped. But they want $10k for the remains. Smile, wish them a good day, and head on down the road. No need to be nasty, but there's no point in wasting your time.

I grew up in a small town in southwestern Ohio. My father is the least bigoted person I know, and I've never heard him say anything bad about anybody. Ever.

However, growing up, he often said he would "jew down" someone, instead of saying "haggle." We didn't know any Jewish people, and we never thought anything of it. We just thought it meant something like "chew."

When I finally moved away from Mayberry, I met another guy who also grew up in a small Midwest town. He'd heard the "jew down" term, but thought exactly the same thing I thought it meant. Both of us worked in an office that was frequented by Jewish salespeople, and it was our job to negotiate pricing on a daily basis.

We both learned what the saying meant, and after much recollection, neither one of us believed we'd ever used that term in front of the Jewish folk.

In a totally unrelated story: These same salespeople called on Pep Boys HQ in Philly. Even in the '80's, if the salespeople needed desk space/telephones while doing business, the corporate management at Pep would offer them a cubicle, which they proudly nicknamed the "Heeb Hut."

Bigotry can be a result of ignorance as much as hatred.

Alot of good things listed already but I'll reiterate and add if you dont mind. This comes from the experience of having bought and sold over 110 cars in my life so I guess I'm qualified to have an opinion.

1) Dont pick the car apart, most sellers are somehow attached to the car and take it personally. Pick one or 2 major items and give them the "I really like it but I am concerned about xxx"

2) Dont start with overpriced cars. If the car is insanely overpriced I wont bother, I'll wait to find another grounded closer to reality or wait until the current one starts to drop.

3) My general rule of thumb on any car is minimum 10% off the top. I have yet to meet any car or seller, even if the price says firm, that wont take off at least 10%

4) Be polite and courteous. Especially with older sellers, listen to their stories appreicate their love of the car. I've had more people give me a good deal because I was a "nice boy who will take care of my car"

5) Dont try to rationalize your offer, sometimes it seems that trying to do this just makes things worse. Be polite and to the point and offer what you think is fair....scratch that, offer pick the number you want to pay, subtract that from the asking price, then subtract 1/2 that from your offer (example $3000 car, you want to pay $2500 difference is $500 so offer $2500 - ($500/2) = $2250)
Ok thats alot of math but that formula almost always gets me the response "how 'bout we meet 1/2 way and gets it back to $2500 in our scenario which is what I want to pay"

And yes I know the math doesnt actually add up to meeting 1/2 way, its a jedi mind trick on the sellers or something but I can't tell you how many times we've met "halfway" to my advantage like this. (just last night as a matter of fact I pulled this one off)

6) Walk away. If you have to have the car, and it shows, then the seller knows it. Sometimes a day or two of separation will bring them around, sometimes you just need to look elsewhere.

You can also pull this dick move if needed.
Send over a few friends to not buy the car.
Friend one does not like the way it runs.
Friend two does not like the way it looks.
You show up as guy number three who sees some flaws with the way it runs and some flaws with way it looks (certainly other shoppers have pointed out these flaws - your friends)

This is often called beating down the seller.

If the seller is local don't tell him your buying it to restore then strip it and sell it off. That pisses people off and you'll never buy another localy for a good price.

For me...a lot of finding good deals comes from two things:

1. Being first in line. The Honda CL200 I just bought...I was the first guy to show up to look at it. I have no idea why he took less than asking price (and gave me a day to get him all the cash) but he did. Its condition and price pretty much garaunteed that whoever the first person to get the chance to buy it would do so. I was that person this time.

Many times you find a good deal because someone "just wants it gone" or thinks the item has less value than you do. If you're the first person there, it's yours.

1. Be "the guy" that knows and wants cheap cars. I've come up with a few freebies or cheapies because folks know I like to dork around with old, broken, cheap cars. This netted me a free running '88 Civic from a friend a year or so back (stagnant LeMons project).

There are other subsets, but those are the ones that jump out as the big ones to me.

Once I got a free, junky BMW 320i that drove me home. I provided a solution. This college student needed to get the thing out of the parking lot where she used to live. It had a flat tire or two, a broken window, and a dead battery. "I'll take any offer, she said." My reply was, "I'll get it out of here for you, if that sounds ok."

The heartstrings work often too. I got my boat (in reader's rides) for what is probably a reasonable deal (it wasn't a steal at $400). I told the guy the truth. I was looking for something cheap for my daughters and I to use on the river. I asked him his bottom dollar. He told me. I said it certainly sounded like a fair price but was $100 over what I was able to spend on it. He said he'd likely take the offer after he thought about it for a day or two.

That's a good one, I've used. Decide what your max is. Ask the seller their bottom dollar. Inform them it doesn't meet up with your top dollar (you can give a reason or not. My reason is typically, "that's all I can spend on it."). I then typically leave them with, "If circumstances change and you decide you're able to accept my offer, I'd appreciate if you gave me a call."

Respect and courtesy go a long way.

And the crack smokers (delusional sellers)...they're just not worth the trouble.

Clem

[edit: I put "2" in the second set...but the board automatically changes it to 1]

The way I do it is decide in my head what the car is worth to me and then start working on the owner to figure out why they are selling the car. I then try to figure out how badly they need money. This goes both ways, poor people NEED money and will take what they can get sometimes, but also RICH people don't really NEED money but feel they should get SOMETHING for the item. The latter is how I scored a set of VW 17" wheels for $200. I also use cash only and bring it with me, usually in $20 bills. Keep your first cash offer in one pocket, and place other cash stashes in your other pockets (it's important to KNOW how much is in each pocket, if you have to count the money they know you have more and won't come down).

I also play the "good old boy" card a lot. Get to know the seller, find a common bond. I got a screaming deal on my Passat because the old man who owned it lived across the street from my mom's best friend AND he was a long time Ford factory worker. We talked neighborhood stuff and cars. He knocked a grand off the price.

I've also never gone to look at a car I couldn't walk away from. You know what it's worth to you, pay more than that and you'll regret the purchase.

I take Cash, and only exactly onw much I am willing to spend. I offer that. If they take it Great! If not, I move along as there is no shortage of piece of crap cars for me to destroy. (or fix up and race, and then destroy)

I've found a few tactics to be helpful:

If you see something that's been for sale for a while, you can probably make a low-ball offer because they want it gone/need cash/are sick of looking at it/are sick of the wife b!tching about it still being on the front lawn, etc.

Be personable. I've found that striking up a decent conversation - on or off topic about the vehicle in question - can earn you some points with the seller.

If the car has flaws, point them out, but don't be rude about it. People get emotionally attached to their cars, so pointing out issues is like pointing out the goiter on the guy's neck - he knows it's there; no need to dwell on it.

Using these tactics, I scored my 911 for about $7K(!?!?!) less than the original asking price.

Here's the "abridged" version. Pay attention:

If buying from a private seller, always negotiate in person; never over the phone or online, and always have the exact amount of cash you're willing to pay PHYSICALLY IN YOUR HAND. Tapping the wad of 20's on the roof while talking works well too. If the seller's not interested in your offer, WALK_AWAY.

If you want it cheap, you want to be the guy who takes less than 20 minutes of the seller's time, hands him a wad of cash, and makes his car go away.

Also, a GOOD attitude is key. "I'm willing to pay you X" is a lot more polite and respecful than "I'll GIVE you X for this piece of E36 M3." "X is really all I'm able to spend right now" is also appropriate. Be persistent, too. If the seller doesn't accept your offer, and the car is still for sale 2 weeks later, give him a call and half-jokingly say "I've still got that $X cash burning a hole in my pocket!"

You're very, very, very rarely going to find a "deal of the century" on eBay or CL. The list of potential buyers is too long, and too focused. The sweetest deals are found at insurance and towing auctions. Know what happens when your Miata gets rear ended and they cut you a check? They sell the car to try to recoup some cash. Know what happens to the RX7 with 30 orange stickers pasted all over the side that you see on the way to work for a week? The towing yard picks it up, runs abondonment paperwork, then trys to recoup some cash - first at the auction, then worst case, at the scrap yard.

Go to / call your local towing yards. Ask them if / when they do auctions, or if they send their cars out to other auctions. Show up with what you're willing to spend, keeping in mind that you might be picking up a lemon which you, in turn, will need to flip and get your money back. Also keep in mind that if it's at a towing auction, you might have to pay extra for paperwork and/or keys. It's an arduous process, but that's the game. If you want a running car for two or three hundred bucks, it's not going to fall in your lap!

On that note: You don't buy a 10 second bug, or a beautiful petty blue civic, sucker-vette, or a bagged '49 for $2k. You take a free shell, a couple parts cars, and some swap meet bits, then spend a gazillion hours frantically putting it all together; then sell off as much as you can from the parts cars/platform car to get as close to "zero" as you possibly can.

One more thing:

How do you go about telling someone that the car they're selling for $1200 is actually worth $200 and get them to believe you? Because that $1200/$200 thing happens a lot with used cars.

You don't. If I advertise a car for $1,200, it means I need a grand out of it, and I'm going to make you feel all warm and fuzzy by letting you beat me down a couple hundred bucks. If some schmoe wasted an hour of my time nit-picking my car, then offered me 15% of my asking price, I'd thank him for wasting an hour of my day, then politely tell him to get the berkeley off my property.

As both buyer and seller of a LOT of cars, from parts cars to nice stuff, i know how all you guys act.

As a seller, I never overprice my stuff, always starting out a bit under what the low side of the going price is, and then factor in things that are wrong with it (and describe them up front). Sorry, but lowballing me due to condition isn't going to get you anywhere because I already do that in the price asked. I'll simply respond with, "oh, you want a NEW car. Those are in town at the dealership." lol!

I was selling a '74 Chevy Luv parts truck, no engine but otherwise complete, almost perfectly straight, but faded paint and a number of rock chips. Wanted $400 for it. Had the typical response of people trying to haggle it down to $50-100. One guy said, "if it ran, I'd give you $400 for it." to which I responded "if it ran, I'd be asking $1500, like the rest of the running trucks around."

Got guys wanting to make payments on it, or talking about hardships. Sorry, not a bank or a charity.

So, I rolled it into the garage, sanded it and put $50 worth of primer on it, and put it up for sale for $750. Sold it in an hour. ...................

As far as being a buyer, I agree with being "the guy" that is known for buying cheap cars. You get all sorts of leads on stuff people simply want to get rid of. Be receptive to things you normally wouldn't look at.

Honestly, I think the best strategy is to look for good deals rather than specific cars. If I'm looking for a specific model of car, it seems that I always end up paying too much or end up buying a car that has more issues than I really hoped for, because I was too focused on finding something in particular. If you educate yourself on a variety of cars and just keep your eyes open, you will find many more good deals. In the past, I have missed good deals on car X, because I was focused on getting car Y at the time. I try to be smarter in looking at used cars now.

-Chris R.

JThw8 has the best advise in my opinion. I stopped counting how many cars I've had over ten years ago, back then it was well over one hundred. I've easily had 300 - 400 by now. All but 10 or so have been sold at a profit.

-Don't go look at overpriced cars.

-Don't even bother with cars that seem to be priced fairly.

-All sellers are negotiable. Make them negotiate against themselves (the counter to that is don't do the same when you are the seller). In other words, say something to the effect of, "What do you have to get out of this?"

-Have cash. I usually have the trailer with me. So the the question is "What do you have to get for this, cash money right now."

So lets say the seller has a car that's worth $3000. He's asking $2500. You want to pay $2200. If you offer $2200 you'll strike a deal at $2300 or so. If you make him give out the first number, he may say "I really need to get $2000 out of it." You just saved $200. But he likely won't volunteer his bottom dollar. Think for a minute then offer $1700. He'll come back with "Could you do $1850?". Pay him.

I do this all the time and I NEVER do it in a bullying manner. I often have people thanking me for buying their car. What I offer is a quick, easy, painless transaction. For that I expect a good deal.

Edit - More good advise has been posted while I was typing. Also, never pick apart anyone's car. Assume that they know every problem it has. Otherwise, you'll just piss them off.

btp76 wrote: What I offer is a quick, easy, painless transaction. For that I expect a good deal.

Well said, what CL has done is increased the buyer pool, but just like the gene pool its filled with alot of idiots and lowlifes. A no BS polite approach appeals to sellers who have had to deal with idiots all day long.

When I bought the truck last night I had in my pocket the amount I was willing to pay, I offered below that based on my equation above and the seller came back with a price that left me $100 in my pocket to pay the notary. We met right down the street from a title agency and from the time I got there to the time it was transferred to my name and cash was in his pocket was less than 30 minutes. Everyone was happy and home in time for dinner.

Be willing to stand firmly beside your decision. I've made deals on cars and found problems I didn't see while loading them. That's on me. I don't know how you get this across to the seller, but you want them to know that you won't call them later with problems.

What make's me think of this is; I saw a good price on a race suit posted on here. I was the first to reply with a simple I'll take it. Payed via pay pal. It arrived and all was well. I had it with me at LeMons new orleans when I met the seller who was there with Babe - JThw8.

The only thing I would add is on craigslist, learn the phrases that mean the add should be avoided. Like "no lowballers", "serious enquiries only", "price reduced for quick sale" and stuff like that.

don't say "it's only worth xxxx". say "i've only got xxxx to spend." there's a big difference in how it's going to be received.

So how do you talk a friend down about the price of a car he is selling? He is not a car guy and is way over pricing the car The big problem is 2 other people (non car people) say its a fair price!

Butch_86 wrote: So how do you talk a friend down about the price of a car he is selling? He is not a car guy and is way over pricing the car The big problem is 2 other people (non car people) say its a fair price!

Show him ads of similar cars priced correctly. Find completed eBay auctions for similar cars. Wait it out until he realizes it wont sell at his ridiculous price.

But the best advice I can give is don't buy cars from friends or family. Its bad enough people try to make a business transaction like this personal but it gets real messy when there is a level of personal involvement.

if someone asks my bottom dollar on anything i have for sale i tell them a higher price than i have listed and hang up on them.